Author Topic: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa  (Read 55117 times)

tufsu1

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #240 on: May 27, 2020, 09:51:13 PM »
^ I've been working on an economic mobility and access study of this corridor for the last two years. The interesting thing to note here is that TriRail paid Brightline to add capacity to Miami Central station.

Even if TriRail on the FEC never happens north of midtown, there's a crossover connection between the CSX and FEC around 73rd Street. TriRail's initial plans were to split the end point of their trains between the airport and downtown.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 09:56:36 PM by tufsu1 »

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #241 on: May 28, 2020, 10:41:38 AM »

I can't imagine that TriRail is going to let Virgin in on it's action without a fight and some sort of compensation.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Virgin get help for building it's additional 4 - 6 stations in MIA- WPB corridor that it's been talking about in exchange for TriRail being able to use them.

Not sure what that is worth if TriRail doesn't have funding in place for a third track on the corridor.  It's FEC's line; they're going to need to get their permission to actually operate on it. 

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #242 on: May 28, 2020, 11:53:14 AM »
Since Virgin and FEC sleep in the same bed, it would be a waste for TriRail to fight to try and operate on the FEC in Miami at least. Plus TriRail is 100% government funded. If giving money to Virgin to run a better commuter rail service is lower than 100% subsidizing TriRail on the FEC, it would be better to have Virgin do it.
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Pottsburg

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #243 on: May 28, 2020, 04:10:11 PM »
TriRail running north of the diamond in Miami is not going to happen. Virgin is really talking about the port lead track, which is not mainline. Possibly a stop in a place like Historic Overtown which is in the process of being revitalize. There was rumor of the new soccer stadium going there. South of the diamond you have the Miami people mover which runs along the FEC corridor but is raised. I promise virgin isn’t interested in heading west along the FEC tracks too Hialeah.
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acme54321

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #244 on: May 28, 2020, 07:13:36 PM »

I can't imagine that TriRail is going to let Virgin in on it's action without a fight and some sort of compensation.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Virgin get help for building it's additional 4 - 6 stations in MIA- WPB corridor that it's been talking about in exchange for TriRail being able to use them.

Not sure what that is worth if TriRail doesn't have funding in place for a third track on the corridor.  It's FEC's line; they're going to need to get their permission to actually operate on it.

Virgin/Brightline and FEC share ownership of the corridor.

Pottsburg

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #245 on: May 29, 2020, 03:36:47 PM »

I can't imagine that TriRail is going to let Virgin in on it's action without a fight and some sort of compensation.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Virgin get help for building it's additional 4 - 6 stations in MIA- WPB corridor that it's been talking about in exchange for TriRail being able to use them.

Not sure what that is worth if TriRail doesn't have funding in place for a third track on the corridor.  It's FEC's line; they're going to need to get their permission to actually operate on it.

No virgin/Brightline owns the land in some spots like the stations and part of the port. But the majority of the land is owned by FEC (now GrupoMexico) alone. The big unknowing factor in all of this, is Grupo is only interested in freight. They are not getting along with Brightline and go head to head on issues all the time. Brightline owns one of the tracks on the double main but that track is on FEC land. So it’s basically like a 99 year lease. You can upgrade the property all you want but if you go out of business it’s your responsibility to pickup you track and leave (which is not economical).

Virgin/Brightline and FEC share ownership of the corridor.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #246 on: June 03, 2020, 12:15:23 PM »
Since Virgin and FEC sleep in the same bed, it would be a waste for TriRail to fight to try and operate on the FEC in Miami at least. Plus TriRail is 100% government funded. If giving money to Virgin to run a better commuter rail service is lower than 100% subsidizing TriRail on the FEC, it would be better to have Virgin do it.

It's good to have an optimistic take.  I'm way too jaded.   It's Miami; I have a hard time getting past the  good ol' boy network that's going to be in play.   

i wouldn't be surprised to see that network throw too much public $$$ at Virgin to build the stations while having TriRail be the operator for those.

Part of that too is that commuter rail isn't something you can operate for a profit; not w/out the govt throwing in big $$$$$$.   Just look at Rock Island's history.  They begged for decades to offload their money Chicago commuter rail operations. 

Just my take.  I appreciate the insights and opinions others are sharing too.  Good stuff.

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #247 on: June 03, 2020, 12:26:20 PM »
^I'd be interested to see how they identify where to place the extra stations. Seems like a potential TOD bonanza, while getting public money to sustain operations. In general, it's pretty brilliant to combine the two. It's what the railroad and streetcar barons used to do 100 years ago. Typically we just shell out public money on public transit and totally ignore the land use integration side of it (cough...Ultimate Urban Circulator).
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tufsu1

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #248 on: June 04, 2020, 01:57:36 PM »
^ here is the website for the land use & TOD studies. The draft reports should be out next month.

http://www.miamidadetpo.org/smartplan-northeast-corridor.asp

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #249 on: August 08, 2020, 12:07:44 PM »

Virgin's been given the boot

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-07/brightline-to-drop-virgin-branding-end-branson-relationship

The company had entered into a branding deal with Virgin in advance of a planned initial public offering, which was scrapped indefinitely on pricing day in February 2019.

At the time, the companies touted synergies between the luxury, higher-speed trains and Virgin’s other travel brands, including Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd., which was granted U.S. bankruptcy protection Friday. But in a filing Friday, the train company said it is cutting ties for unexplained reasons.

The company said its name will be Brightline Trains LLC and that Virgin had no remaining equity ownership or affiliation. It said it delivered a termination notice on July 29, which Virgin is disputing.

A Virgin spokesman didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

marcuscnelson

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #250 on: August 08, 2020, 01:16:33 PM »
Uh… wow.

So does that mean they're dropping the IPO entirely?

And what about stuff like the PortMiami expansion?

They're going to have to change the name back on MiamiCentral, right? Removing all the red paint?
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acme54321

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #251 on: August 08, 2020, 04:32:14 PM »
I don't know about all that but I'm down in Melbourne for the weekend and they are going hot and heavy with the construction.

Pottsburg

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thelakelander

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #253 on: August 09, 2020, 10:44:03 AM »
They're still moving full speed ahead with construction into Orlando.  I have a project in Brevard County that we've had to coordinate with and incorporate their plans.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #254 on: August 10, 2020, 05:31:43 PM »

Not surprised to see that construction that already had funding in place - largely via a public component - is moving forward.

The question is since Virgin doesn't have cash to bring to the table........ where does it come after this? 

This may speak more to the precarious cash position Virgin LTDz are in right now than Brightline.

Or maybe something else happened that we don't know of yet?