Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 24147 times)

JBTripper

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #270 on: June 13, 2018, 03:20:40 PM »
Kerry doesn't like a thing, and everyone else is stupid for liking that thing he doesn't like.

If the city has spent $153 million over 25 years, that comes to about $7 per Duval County resident each year. That's a lot cheaper than cancer.

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #271 on: June 13, 2018, 03:20:58 PM »
The the city would get much less each year from Florida-Georgia, and then Downtown’s benefit from those events are at risk. I’d love to see how that makes sense.

Easily made up for in property taxes on the facilities.  Alas, I seriously doubt Khan would want to buy them, but I would like to see the City make the offer just the same.
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #272 on: June 13, 2018, 03:22:13 PM »
Kerry doesn't like a thing, and everyone else is stupid for liking that thing he doesn't like.

Was that necessary?
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jaxjags

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #273 on: June 13, 2018, 03:23:51 PM »
Sure glad Kerry didn’t live in Jax in 1989.

It wouldn't have mattered.  I am vastly out numbered either way :)

My point was that Jax was considered a smelly (paper mills) backwater town you had to pass through to get to south Florida. There was very little development going on anywhere in Jax. Believe it or not the Jags put Jax the map. Today I wouldn’t move here because of Jags but at least I know it exists and should check it out.

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #274 on: June 13, 2018, 03:30:49 PM »
As far as economics go, the positives and negatives of stadium and sports spending is exaggerated on both ends. They aren't the gravy fountain the supporters claim, or the colossal drain the detractors claim. From what I've read, they're really about even money - the revenues they bring in about covers the cost to the city. There are downsides to that - it's a huge opportunity cost, that could have been spent on something else. But there are also upsides. Namely, it's a quality of life expense. It's something that makes people - a lot of people - happy, it brings them together, and gives them a sense of pride about their city. Sports, like art, parks, libraries, and festivals, are quality-of-life expenses.

This is from one of the various studies of sports team spending. It's something the critics usually don't acknowledge:

"Sport facilities and teams create a variety of benefits that are completely unrelated to their ability to generate jobs or income. The cultural importance and psychological benefits associated with professional sport teams likely outweigh their economic impacts, providing residents a common ground, a topic of conversation, and sometimes a source of pride. An entire region can benefit from an enhanced central city image, and many believe that professional sports teams simply improve quality of life. Residents never need purchase a ticket to derive utility from a sports team. These benefits exist regardless of any contribution of the team or facility to the local economy."

By Charles A. Santo, "Cities, Stadiums, and Subsidies: Why Cities Spend So Much on Sports", p. 87. In Sport and Public Policy: Social, Political, and Economic Perspectives, 2010.
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sanmarcomatt

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #275 on: June 13, 2018, 03:37:04 PM »
I have to say I find comparing the posts of "The Jags were the second coming" to "the Jags are the anti-christ" pretty funny. It reminds me of watching a cable news segment.

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #276 on: June 13, 2018, 03:48:19 PM »
I have to say I find comparing the posts of "The Jags were the second coming" to "the Jags are the anti-christ" pretty funny. It reminds me of watching a cable news segment.

I would be willing to play my part on a TV show if anyone is interested.  Does Public Access TV still exist?
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #277 on: June 13, 2018, 03:54:24 PM »


My point was that Jax was considered a smelly (paper mills) backwater town you had to pass through to get to south Florida. There was very little development going on anywhere in Jax. Believe it or not the Jags put Jax the map. Today I wouldn’t move here because of Jags but at least I know it exists and should check it out.

It couldn't have been that bad - they convinced the NFL to expand here.  Of course, being a sport fans, especially college football, I always knew about the Gator Bowl and Jax.
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sanmarcomatt

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #278 on: June 13, 2018, 03:55:26 PM »
I have to say I find comparing the posts of "The Jags were the second coming" to "the Jags are the anti-christ" pretty funny. It reminds me of watching a cable news segment.

I would be willing to play my part on a TV show if anyone is interested.  Does Public Access TV still exist?

Hmmmm....could be a way for someone to sell some books. If only there was someone who could take the other part.....but I am drawing a blank.

sanmarcomatt

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #279 on: June 13, 2018, 04:01:27 PM »


My point was that Jax was considered a smelly (paper mills) backwater town you had to pass through to get to south Florida. There was very little development going on anywhere in Jax. Believe it or not the Jags put Jax the map. Today I wouldn’t move here because of Jags but at least I know it exists and should check it out.

It couldn't have been that bad - they convinced the NFL to expand here.  Of course, being a sport fans, especially college football, I always knew about the Gator Bowl and Jax.

You are way off. If it wasn't for the Jags, the downtown would probably suck, most of the growth would be in the boonies, and our major accomplishment would probably be a big outdoor mall.

Wait a minute....

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #280 on: June 13, 2018, 04:37:46 PM »


My point was that Jax was considered a smelly (paper mills) backwater town you had to pass through to get to south Florida. There was very little development going on anywhere in Jax. Believe it or not the Jags put Jax the map. Today I wouldn’t move here because of Jags but at least I know it exists and should check it out.

It couldn't have been that bad - they convinced the NFL to expand here.  Of course, being a sport fans, especially college football, I always knew about the Gator Bowl and Jax.

Jacksonville got a little lucky, but yes in the end the argument was successful:

-Commissioner Tagliabue championed new markets that were popular for college football:
-The leaders of the St Louis and Baltimore bids (which were considered the leaders) had some issues. St Louis had multiple ownership groups that had some infighting going on, and the league was afraid of pissing off the Redskins’ ownership by being too close (yes-I agree that makes no sense considering Baltimore had a team until 1982ish). The other contender was Memphis but their plans for the Liberty Bowl were less than impressive.

Adam White

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #281 on: June 13, 2018, 04:58:45 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.


You may wish to revisit your math.

The math is correct. COJ gave the Jaguars $45M. The Jaguars then managed the project and were responsible for any cost overruns.

No, the math is wrong. If the Jaguars gave $90M and the COJ gave $45M, that's not 50/50. That's 67/33 (roughly).
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Adam White

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #282 on: June 13, 2018, 05:03:08 PM »
While I’d certainly wouldn’t mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don’t want to be in Richmond’s or Norfolk’s shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

Maybe their lack of economic growth is because they're in VA. Or maybe it's because they start with letters that come later in the alphabet. Both 'hypothoses' are just as reasonable as randomly assuming that the presence of a professional football team is the reason for purported better growth on the part of Jax.

“The” reason for growth? Definitely not, nor did I ever (or would ever) say that. A catalyst that plays a role? I think it would be hard to argue otherwise.

Or it could be a complete coincidence. There could be innumerable other factors which are far more important to the growth of Jax than having an NFL team. Simply noting that Jax has a team and has been growing at a faster rate than two other somewhat similarly-sized MSAs that don't have teams is just that. It's simply a correlation - and you know what they say about that.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #283 on: June 13, 2018, 05:05:00 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.


You may wish to revisit your math.

The math is correct. COJ gave the Jaguars $45M. The Jaguars then managed the project and were responsible for any cost overruns.

No, the math is wrong. If the Jaguars gave $90M and the COJ gave $45M, that's not 50/50. That's 67/33 (roughly).

Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Adam White

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #284 on: June 13, 2018, 05:17:21 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.


You may wish to revisit your math.

The math is correct. COJ gave the Jaguars $45M. The Jaguars then managed the project and were responsible for any cost overruns.

No, the math is wrong. If the Jaguars gave $90M and the COJ gave $45M, that's not 50/50. That's 67/33 (roughly).



Very good.

I was actually strengthening his argument re: the contributions that Khan/the Jaguars made. But I'm also a pedantic prick and couldn't help myself...
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