Author Topic: Metro Jacksonville Responds to JTA, Mayor Peyton  (Read 3839 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Metro Jacksonville Responds to JTA, Mayor Peyton
« on: August 25, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »
Metro Jacksonville Responds to JTA, Mayor Peyton



Even Ottawa (King of BRT) is turning to railJTA officials believe their $21 million/mile BRT plan is cheaper than commuter rail and tout Ottawa’s 16-mile BRT system as a success. However, recent commuter rail projects in peer cities are coming in at under $10 million/mile and some as low as $2 million/mile. Unfortunately, it seems that officials are willing to spend over $700 million on a bus system that will not be operational until 2030, rather than seriously considering commuter rail.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/191

Jim

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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 12:59:41 PM »
If only they'd listen to reason.  Great article.

JohnnyRox

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Sooo...
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2006, 02:28:11 PM »
What can the public do about it? Is there any way to convince the powers that be to do it our way or are we stuck w/ what we get and just sit by idly while are tax dollars are thrown away?

thelakelander

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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2006, 03:16:34 PM »
At this point all we can do is keep talking about, contact our local and state representatives and educate the rest of the local population on this issue.  They only have $100 million at this point, so there's still plenty of time to create enough reasonable doubt to get at least one or a few local officials to seriously look into this.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

larry b.

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Jacksonville Alliance for Rapid Rail
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2006, 12:12:31 PM »
How about a citizen group?  There is strength in numbers.

Joe

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Vote for Someone else
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 10:15:15 PM »
Vote for someone else who actually has experience and vision and who can run the City as the major municipality that it is. As long as people remain indifferent to elections and the importance that political leaders they elect have, you will have do nothing local governments.

JohnnyRox

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2006, 12:46:33 PM »
I think thats a given, the thing is the wheels are turning now while we have someone in office... Waiting for another person in office that may screw the pooch then as well can't be the only option...

Joe

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Wheels turning?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2006, 10:30:05 PM »
Yeah the wheels are turning allright, you'll have a brand new shiny bus system in about 25 years. Hope those busses have wheelchair lifts so you will be able to get on. Who knows, in 25 years maybe they will be nuke-ular powered anti-gravity time travel busses. With their own lanes they should have no problem making 88 MPH.

JohnnyRox

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Wasted time and money...
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 11:39:17 AM »
So spend millions on planning now, wait until we have a new mayor and switch it to something else... I got it... good idea!


Joe

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"Planning"
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 07:46:52 AM »
In this case "planning"=graft for well connected consultants. Millions spent on a make believe transportation system that will never come to fruition. In municipal political doublespeak, 25 years=never. Planning money spent for a project set to commence in 25 years=waste,graft & political patronage.

Ocklawaha

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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2006, 06:52:03 PM »
I am the same person that worked so hard with George Harmon of the Jax Journal newspaper to kill the skyway and insert a historic downtown LRT system. It was proven then, as it is now that busses draw less riders then LRV´s regardless of track or lane systems. The idea that Pittsburgh dumped LRT for BRT is highly suspect information. What they did was to 1. build some busways 2. go through a period of sticker shock 3. scrap most remaining busway plans in favor of up grading the old Trolley (LRT) system. 4. consolidated their planning and tore the LRT off the streets in downtown and placed those SAME LRT lines in subways.

Since one mile of railroad is cheaper to build then a mile of highway, and since that same railroad line has the same capacity as a 6 lane highway at peak flow, is LRT or Commuter Rail more expensive then BRT? Not a chance! What the city officials never owned up to was that the "historic trolley" or LRT for that matter is simply an electric train. They CAN and DO (San Diego example) operate on the same track as freight railroads and DO NOT have to be in a street and compete with vehicle traffic. The City of Jacksonville used the "street traffic" argument to stonewall the trolley system.

What was the Historic Trolley? (see Tampa which built Jacksonville´s Trolley!) The Historic Trolley Project was to extend from Union Terminal to Metropolitan Stadium  with large parking facilities at or near both ends. The Bay and Water Street route was to be a Gas Lamp, Old South style, Trolley Parkway. (see old post card photos of Jacksonville Traction Companys Main Street Line, once considered to be the most beautiful Trolley line in the WORLD). Some of the line in medians, some private (freight) right of way and some street trackage. It could be built using all sorts of moneys available for Historic, Urban, Redevelopment projects and never touch the "transportation funds". Once up and running, Modern LRV´s could use the same route to access downtown, while existing FEC, CSX and NS RR trackage would allow them to reach the suburbs. Consider if this little link were built today, with it in place, LRV´s could enter town from:(1) Busch, Immeson and alongside North Main Street to the Stadium connection. Also from Union Terminal west along (2) Moncrief, Kings Road, Grand Crossing and Paxon. (3) Beaver Street, Normandy, Merietta, Baldwin (4) Edgewood, Ortega, NAS JAX, Orange Park, Green Cove Springs (5) San Marco, University Bl, Phillips Mall, Sunbeam, St Augustine.  All of this trackage is already in place. These routes (with the exception of the downtown historic line) could also be used by the new DMU trains. In fact with DMU´s a couple of the Baldwin trains might even extend beyond the metro area, one for Lake City and Tallahassee and the other for Starke, Alachua and Gainesville (downtown).  

I love Jacksonville with all of my heart but I finally gave up. At that time, nobody but the press would listen. I am currently living in a city that is "Transit Savy" in South America! Sad that this place is more progressive then my home.

Lunican

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cost per mile
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 12:51:46 AM »
Look at the table that shows each systems cost per mile. That says it all.

Wilson

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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 01:37:22 AM »
The following video shows Toronto's Bus Rapid Transit interfacing with automobile traffic. Look Familiar? It should. JTA operates buses all over Jacksonville in this manner everyday.
One Toronto BRT commuter, after watching this video, commented, "I hate Viva (Toronto BRT). Look at the video, its not faster..YRT (regular bus) is right behind it. And they increased the fare to $2.50! Boycott VIVA"

Get your facts straight. VIVA is not a bus rapid transit system (yet). It has yet to implement dedicated bus lanes, which will separate buses from mixed traffic.

So for now, they will be running alongside the local buses.

Lunican

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viva
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2007, 10:47:39 AM »
Viva may not be considered BRT yet, but JTA's version of BRT will in fact interface with regular traffic, making just like the current VIVA operations.