Author Topic: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona  (Read 2612 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2018, 12:34:03 AM »
Nationally, the Jax incident won't make the news, so there's no comparison worth making. Locally, we've already filled these forums about how we can improve streets like Edgewood for multimodal safety and economic revitalization opportunities.
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ronchamblin

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2018, 12:56:50 AM »
If there is enough light, to great distance, provided by the headlights of an automobile, an alert, sober, and capable individual provides a superb driving ability, with the result that it is almost impossible for the vehicle to hit anything that appears in front of the vehicle -- unless of course an object practically drops out of the sky onto the roadway. 

Statistics might confirm that, the very fact that all drivers are not always alert, sober, and skilled to the extreme, ensures continued crashes, injuries, and deaths.

In my view, the sensory, perception, computation and reaction abilities of the alert and sober human far exceeds the current level of self-drive technology.  At least several years more development are needed before the self-drive technology can be relied upon to even approach the abilities of the skilled, alert, and sober individual.

The current self-drive vehicles function on a level of a rather stupid, somewhat drugged driver.  Before reliable, effective, and safe self-drive vehicles arrive, the self-drive systems must be improved to such a degree that the eventual types will barely be recognized when compared to the current rather dumb systems.

Sensory systems must be able to perceive instantaneously anything that exists or moves … must be able to quickly assess the essence of the relationship between a perceived object and its environment … with proper decision as to action. 

Currently, the self-drive systems seem to some observers to be more effective than is the case, simply because they compare to the many drivers on the road who crash, injure, and kill as a consequence of not being alert … of being drugged via alcohol or drugs, or of simply being stupid.  We must compare any self-drive system to the competent individual in the first paragraph. 

There are many individuals in our population who are able to get a driver’s licence, but are continually dangerous on the road because are they are mentally slow or at least perform poorly when attempting to spatially engage the environment.  These are individuals who we certainly would not want to be driving the cab we use, or flying the airliner in which we fly. 

Certainly, the current self-drive autos might approach being as safe as the current population of near idiots on the road … especially if these drivers are texting or drinking.  This is not good enough.

Most of us will be impressed and satisfied with the self drive autos only when they have approached the abilities of the skilled, alert, and sober drivers … those who never have had, or caused, crashes … those who mostly prevent crashes that would have happened via one of the mentally slow drivers … the near idiots who attempt to injure and kill every day. 

The human system of perception, analysis, reaction, and action is much more complicated … much more profound as to performance, than many realize.  The current state of robotics or AI is quite effective and impressive when engaging scenarios of somewhat fixed and repetitive tasks, but when the variables and possibilities of events increase to extremes, such as when an automobile is maneuvered through the many variables encountered on a typical journey through high pedestrian and auto traffic, only the human system can perform with effectiveness and safety.

Of course, the current rather dumb self-drive systems can function safely if the maximum speed is held to perhaps 5 mph.  How long with it be before a self-drive system can take an automobile safely at high speeds from one end of a city to the other?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 01:29:32 AM by ronchamblin »

BridgeTroll

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2018, 11:57:46 AM »
Pretty good read... here is a snippet...

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/j5a8d3/self-driving-car-policy-uber

Quote
Imagine you’re in a self-driving car going down a road when, suddenly, the large propane tanks hauled by the truck in front of you fall out and fly in your direction. A split-second decision needs to be made, and you can't think through the outcomes and tradeoffs for every possible response. Fortunately, the smart system driving your car can run through tons of scenarios at lightning fast speed. How, then, should it determine moral priority?

Consider the following possibilities:

Your car should stay in its lane and absorbs the damage, thereby making it likely that you’ll die.

Your car should save your life by swerving into the left lane and hitting the car there, sending the passengers to their deaths—passengers known, according to their big data profiles, to have several small children.

Your car should save your life by swerving into the right lane and hit the car there, sending the lone passenger to her death—a passenger known, according to her big data profile, to be a scientist who is coming close to finding a cure for cancer.

Your car should save the lives worth the most, measured according to amount of money paid into a new form of life assurance insurance. Assume that each person in a vehicle could purchase insurance against these types of rare but inevitable accidents, and then, smart cars would prioritize based on their ability and willingness to pay.

Your car should save your life and embrace a neutrality principle in deciding among the means for doing so, perhaps by flipping a simulated coin and swerving to the right if heads comes up and swerving to the left if its tails.

Your car shouldn’t prioritize your life and should embrace a neutrality principle by randomly choosing among the three options.

Your car should execute whatever option most closely matches your personal value system and the moral choices you would have made if you were capable of doing so. Assume that when you first purchased your car, you took a self-driving car morality test consisting of a battery of scenarios like this one and that the results “programmed” your vehicle.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

marcuscnelson

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2018, 12:12:39 AM »
Nice article, but I imagine in the overall majority of cases, it's going to end up like how Mercedes chose, where the car will always prioritize saving its occupant because most people won't buy cars they know will consider killing them.

Sure, there are altruistic people out there who would sacrifice themselves to better society, but that's not representative of most people. At best, it'll probably be Option 5.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2018, 12:44:12 PM »
Or cars become sentient and seek to preserve their own "life" above all others.

The system slams on the brakes and veers hard left, causing the rear end to swing around and absorb the brunt of the damage, while 'protecting' the driver.  But then releases the brakes 1/4 spin, cuts the wheel hard right and slams in to the left median.  The sudden impact destroys the driver and passengers, but the crumple zones built into the car saves the CPU under the hood by forcing a rear impact.
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Adam White

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2018, 01:21:47 PM »
Or cars become sentient and seek to preserve their own "life" above all others.

The system slams on the brakes and veers hard left, causing the rear end to swing around and absorb the brunt of the damage, while 'protecting' the driver.  But then releases the brakes 1/4 spin, cuts the wheel hard right and slams in to the left median.  The sudden impact destroys the driver and passengers, but the crumple zones built into the car saves the CPU under the hood by forcing a rear impact.

You need to take the blue pill, maaaaan.
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Sonic101

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2018, 09:54:49 PM »
You won't have to worry about this scenario happening for many many many many years, if ever. The amount of processing power that a car would need to have a reliable system of that capability is absolutely immense. The entire trunk of current AV's are taken up by computers as is, and you see how well they're doing. The amount of information required is also immense and verges on requiring a dystopian future or opens a can of worms into one.

thelakelander

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2018, 12:16:48 PM »
Uber's AVs banned in Arizona for failure to comply with safety standards following fatal collision:

http://www.alphr.com/cars/1008913/uber-autonomous-cars-safety
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ProjectMaximus

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Re: Woman struck and killed by self-driving Uber vehicle in Arizona
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2018, 01:50:55 PM »
^Good.

Just to reiterate a point that has been made often since this incident...google will guide you if you wish to read...

Uber is many years behind the leaders in AV tech. And given uber's compliance track record as a company, it probably deserves far more scrutiny than it has received to this point.