Author Topic: Jones Brothers Building restoration  (Read 2462 times)

Gunnar

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 02:49:51 PM »
Hionides? good luck unless the city is going to bankroll the entire cost

Found this interesting:
Quote
The “developer/agent” identified in Downtown Investment Authority documents is Ace Jax LLC, which shares the Atlantic Beach address of Petra Management, a real estate brokerage firm. Elias Hionides, an executive with Petra, has said in the past the company was working with potential partners to redevelop the building.

Tried to find out who Ace Jac LLC is owned by but could not find anything on Google so far (not that having "Ace" in the name makes this easier) Anyone know ?

Could it be possible that the rather high asking price the building was offered for was just on paper (i.e. changed from the left hand to the right one) ?

In all, he's not getting a bad deal - free (well, for one $) city property that is definitely needed, a low interest long term loan and other incentives for a total of 2,4 Million.

I am also curious how much of the 11.1 Million renovation cost is for planning, consulting and similar.
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fieldafm

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 03:31:53 PM »
Hionides? good luck unless the city is going to bankroll the entire cost

Found this interesting:
Quote
The “developer/agent” identified in Downtown Investment Authority documents is Ace Jax LLC, which shares the Atlantic Beach address of Petra Management, a real estate brokerage firm. Elias Hionides, an executive with Petra, has said in the past the company was working with potential partners to redevelop the building.

Tried to find out who Ace Jac LLC is owned by but could not find anything on Google so far (not that having "Ace" in the name makes this easier) Anyone know ?

Could it be possible that the rather high asking price the building was offered for was just on paper (i.e. changed from the left hand to the right one) ?

In all, he's not getting a bad deal - free (well, for one $) city property that is definitely needed, a low interest long term loan and other incentives for a total of 2,4 Million.

I am also curious how much of the 11.1 Million renovation cost is for planning, consulting and similar.

Virtually all of the empty buildings on Hogan are under contract/recently sold.

To be clear on the building in question- the City had a development agreement in place on this property many years ago (in addition to historic grants, it also included a land swap for parking), which expired. The DA is being updated due to the possibility of a new buyer for the property.... just as an expired development agreement is going through the legislative process on Sisters City Plaza a few blocks away.

Over the past fifteen years several proposals have been in place on this particular piece of property from various local investment groups. It's been empty for more than 30 years. I wouldn't hold your breath on something happening on this parcel so late in the real estate cycle, given the need for historic tax credit financing. 

Here's a look inside:
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-abandoned-florida-the-jones-brothers-furniture-company/page/

vicupstate

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 03:48:18 PM »
Did Historic rehab tax credits survive in the new tax bill? I know they were originally being eliminated initially but there was an effort to keep them. I never heard if that was successful or not. 
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Gunnar

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2018, 05:10:27 AM »
Don’t get me wrong - love the building and would be happy to see it renovated, but the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor) and I found the asking price too high from the start.

While any historic building that is rehabbed in dt Jax makes me happy, I really would not like seeing tax payer money spent on paying the owner’s inflated asking.

One way to alleviate this would be that the city’s grants would be reduced by the amount spend over the building’s assessed value - so let’s say the property is worth $ 400k but a developer bought it for $900k, city grants would be reduced by $500k.
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fieldafm

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 07:30:23 AM »
Quote
but the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor)

Chris Hionides owns the building, and his real estate brokerage (Petra Management) markets his various property holdings for sale or lease. That's not an uncommon situation, nor is it uncommon for each building to be owned by a different LLC. It's also not uncommon for a company like Petra to rezone the property and get a development agreement in place (for a fee) on behalf of their buyer, before a potential transaction.


Quote
I found the asking price too high from the start

Welcome to the business of real estate :)


Quote
While any historic building that is rehabbed in dt Jax makes me happy, I really would not like seeing tax payer money spent on paying the owner’s inflated asking.

Any public assistance (and public assistance would be required to restore this buildings) would not be used to purchase the building.. only as part of a multi-tiered structure to pay for the rehabilitation of the property after a buyer purchases it.


Quote
Did Historic rehab tax credits survive in the new tax bill?

Yes.

Gunnar

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 08:44:33 AM »
Quote
but the whole set-up sounded weird to me (developer shares the address with the realtor)

Chris Hionides owns the building, and his real estate brokerage (Petra Management) markets his various property holdings for sale or lease. That's not an uncommon situation, nor is it uncommon for each building to be owned by a different LLC. It's also not uncommon for a company like Petra to rezone the property and get a development agreement in place (for a fee) on behalf of their buyer, before a potential transaction.


What I found odd - maybe that is normal though - is that the owner, realtor and developer all appear to be the same, just under a different name. So in addition to Hionides (owner), Petra  (real estate brokerage) you also have Ace Jax LLC (developer / agent). I would guess that Ace LLC is also owned bz Hionides ?

As for the development funds not going towards the purchase price: Well, they do make overpaying for the property easier or the other way around if the building was sold for less, then the total cost would go down and the City would need to give less support to make the develoment commercially viable.

Are you sure that the incentives are not based on total cost (i.e. purchase price + restoration costs + any other costs) ? That is how the owner should calculate.
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KenFSU

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2018, 09:36:15 AM »
DIA voted 7-2 yesterday in favor of the $2.25 million in incentives requested for the project.

The retail component would consist of two restaurants.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 10:23:01 AM by KenFSU »
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Steve

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 11:37:51 AM »
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn’t break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?

KenFSU

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 11:45:33 AM »
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn’t break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?

Haven't seen any timelines attached, just that the incentives won't be paid out until the building is fully cleared for occupancy.
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Steve

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 12:01:29 PM »
Was there a time limit on the incentives? In their words, if the project doesn’t break ground in ___ months, do the incentives vanish?

Haven't seen any timelines attached, just that the incentives won't be paid out until the building is fully cleared for occupancy.

That works....doesn’t tie them to any deadlines but the DIA isn’t out the money until the project is complete. That’s fair.

MusicMan

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2018, 09:22:24 AM »
My friend who was at the DIA meeting says 99% of the public comments toward the developer were negative.

Anyone else in attendance?

heights unknown

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2018, 09:52:10 AM »
So if that's true "MusicMan," and I'll bet it is, then why is the DIA, I guess, even considering giving the developer a chance with ANY types of funds? If the track record is poor or not there, common sense says to not waste your time with the entity, company or developer.
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thelakelander

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2018, 09:56:11 AM »
^See Field's response to Gunnar for the answer.
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MusicMan

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Re: Jones Brothers Building restoration
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2018, 10:15:05 AM »
Cause he owns the building and nothing will happen without some COJ assistance?