Author Topic: The District wants $26 million in public incentives  (Read 24485 times)

jaxnyc79

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #165 on: April 24, 2018, 05:12:24 PM »
I'm sort of over the District.  To me, the District feels a bit like "Redevelopment A-D-D." 

I'm much more into clustering growth and development in the Northbank, which frankly feels more like a traditional downtown than the Southbank, and has the density and walkability to eventually lead to street-level vitality.  I'm no expert on Governmental Fund Accounting, but I'd rather use any financing capacity available from the DIA/COJ to support Northbank projects.  Examples: re-branding and marketing downtown to an international development community, adaptive reuse of older building stock into residential and mixed-use, decontamination of polluted downtown properties, and a comprehensive stadium-area entertainment district that in some way integrates with the rest of downtown at pedestrian scale.

I also believe a revitalized Northbank has the potential to positively reverberate to neighborhoods immediately adjacent to downtown, where we would see a much larger delta and return on investment.  The Southbank is next to communities that look pretty good and appear to be doing pretty well on their own.


« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 05:16:05 PM by jaxnyc79 »

heights unknown

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #166 on: April 24, 2018, 08:45:49 PM »
I'm sort of over the District.  To me, the District feels a bit like "Redevelopment A-D-D." 

I'm much more into clustering growth and development in the Northbank, which frankly feels more like a traditional downtown than the Southbank, and has the density and walkability to eventually lead to street-level vitality.  I'm no expert on Governmental Fund Accounting, but I'd rather use any financing capacity available from the DIA/COJ to support Northbank projects.  Examples: re-branding and marketing downtown to an international development community, adaptive reuse of older building stock into residential and mixed-use, decontamination of polluted downtown properties, and a comprehensive stadium-area entertainment district that in some way integrates with the rest of downtown at pedestrian scale.

I also believe a revitalized Northbank has the potential to positively reverberate to neighborhoods immediately adjacent to downtown, where we would see a much larger delta and return on investment.  The Southbank is next to communities that look pretty good and appear to be doing pretty well on their own.



I understand what you are saying, and I agree; but unfortunately the south bank, or a huge portion of it is considered as downtown. I agree wholeheartedly, but let's not leave the south bank out of the equation either; anything that develops there, to me, is icing on the cake.
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jaxnyc79

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #167 on: April 24, 2018, 10:47:15 PM »
 But let’s use scarce resources to bake the cake before we frost it

KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #168 on: April 25, 2018, 09:48:27 AM »
^I wouldn't necessarily say that the District will be poaching development dollars from the Northbank in coming years. Of the $26 million the city is contributing, the DIA is financing $20 million specifically through the Southside Tax Increment Financing District. The city will be paid back in full for their investment, plus interest, in the next 20 years, through incremental revenue increases that result from the development.

Also, I totally get the criticisms, especially on the extensions and the back-and-forth terms, but I think there's a pretty big double-standard between Elements and Iguana. Iguana has been sitting on the entire Northbank riverfront between Berkman 2 and Metro Park for years as well, and through two separate RFPs. They've adjusted terms and agreements on the fly, especially in regards to the Hart Bridge ramps, and we're poised to give them whatever land they want for pennies on the dollar (or free), while also covering remediation costs. And we're still years away from seeing shovels in the ground. Sure, the city plays its part, but Iguana has the capital to have started on the project over three years ago.

Yet, we don't hear 10% of the criticism of Iguana that we do of Elements.

To me, I'd frame it like this. If someone came to you and said, "If the city spent $26 to extend the Southbank riverwalk, construct four roads, and build a 4-acre riverfront park and walking trail, a developer would pay $18 million for the property ($6 million more than the next bidder) and build 1,170 residential units (twice as many as the Strand and Peninsula combined), a movie theater, an urban grocery store, a new office tower, a marina, and 200,000 square feet of restaurants, bars, and retail anchoring the Southbank riverwalk," who says no? Especially if the only way the developer is going to see full incentives is to build as much as they can, as quick as they can.

To Lori Boyer's point, the city isn't just giving away money, but gaining public infrastructure improvements that the public directly benefits from. If the development goes south, we've still got an extended riverwalk, horizontal infrastructure, public parkspace, a kayak launch, and a marketable piece of property ready for immediate development.

I've got conflicts of interest on both sides, I probably should have recused myself from the conversation months ago, but my basic opinion hasn't changed in years. The District, as envisioned, could be transformative for the Southbank, provide a true anchor tenet for the riverwalk and JTA's new autonomous system, activate the St. Johns and create long-term synergy with a Shipyards development across the river, and contribute strongly to the overall downtown effort.

And even at the peak of an economic cycle, Jacksonville's a long way away from being able to see major downtown development through without some form of public incentive.

We'll know one way or another in July.

jaxnyc79

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #169 on: April 25, 2018, 01:10:04 PM »
In an ideal world, all would get done.  If there are opportunity costs on the Northbank for any money and energy expended on the District, I’m just saying that I would prioritize the Northbank.  The question of urbanizing the patch of dirt on the southbank that used to be the generating station is an interesting one.  Roads and infrastructure are typically public works.  However, I’m hearing there are tons of dire public works needs in areas already full of building stock and with current residents, so I could see where some people would bristle at what’s being directed toward the District.  The District lot just happens to be open space among a relatively affluent geographic context, and maybe there’s an argument to focus on maintenance and remediation of existing built zones (including the Northbank’s empty building stock and empty lots already fronting roads with underground infrastructure, and get to Southbank open spaces later.  If you’re telling me that the city has a  funding model to get both done without one taking from the other, then great.

KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #170 on: April 25, 2018, 01:47:25 PM »
In an ideal world, all would get done.  If there are opportunity costs on the Northbank for any money and energy expended on the District, I’m just saying that I would prioritize the Northbank.  The question of urbanizing the patch of dirt on the southbank that used to be the generating station is an interesting one.  Roads and infrastructure are typically public works.  However, I’m hearing there are tons of dire public works needs in areas already full of building stock and with current residents, so I could see where some people would bristle at what’s being directed toward the District.  The District lot just happens to be open space among a relatively affluent geographic context, and maybe there’s an argument to focus on maintenance and remediation of existing built zones (including the Northbank’s empty building stock and empty lots already fronting roads with underground infrastructure, and get to Southbank open spaces later.  If you’re telling me that the city has a  funding model to get both done without one taking from the other, then great.

And to your point, I totally agree as well.

I'd 100% consider the Southbank to be more a part of downtown proper and the CBD than the sports complex at this point (though not as far out as the District), but I'm totally with you that the absolute best way to invest downtown dollars is in the Northbank CBD. Preferably from Laura Street out.

If I had limited resources and was in charge of assigning the dollars, I think the projects that would give us the most immediate bang for our revitalization buck would be activating Snyder Memorial, restoring the Jones Furniture building and Ambassador Hotel, investing even more into Hemming Park, Food Hall-ing the Landing, getting the Marble Bank restaurant up and running, finding a way to convert the JEA tower to residential, etc.

The hope is that the big-ticket anchor projects like the Shipyards, Lot J, and the District will create infill between them and the CBD, but I think the real progress has come, and will continue to come, from grinding out one win at a time in the urban core (including LaVilla), building-by-building, block-by-block.

jaxnyc79

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #171 on: April 25, 2018, 02:14:57 PM »
In an ideal world, all would get done.  If there are opportunity costs on the Northbank for any money and energy expended on the District, I’m just saying that I would prioritize the Northbank.  The question of urbanizing the patch of dirt on the southbank that used to be the generating station is an interesting one.  Roads and infrastructure are typically public works.  However, I’m hearing there are tons of dire public works needs in areas already full of building stock and with current residents, so I could see where some people would bristle at what’s being directed toward the District.  The District lot just happens to be open space among a relatively affluent geographic context, and maybe there’s an argument to focus on maintenance and remediation of existing built zones (including the Northbank’s empty building stock and empty lots already fronting roads with underground infrastructure, and get to Southbank open spaces later.  If you’re telling me that the city has a  funding model to get both done without one taking from the other, then great.

And to your point, I totally agree as well.

I'd 100% consider the Southbank to be more a part of downtown proper and the CBD than the sports complex at this point (though not as far out as the District), but I'm totally with you that the absolute best way to invest downtown dollars is in the Northbank CBD. Preferably from Laura Street out.

If I had limited resources and was in charge of assigning the dollars, I think the projects that would give us the most immediate bang for our revitalization buck would be activating Snyder Memorial, restoring the Jones Furniture building and Ambassador Hotel, investing even more into Hemming Park, Food Hall-ing the Landing, getting the Marble Bank restaurant up and running, finding a way to convert the JEA tower to residential, etc.

The hope is that the big-ticket anchor projects like the Shipyards, Lot J, and the District will create infill between them and the CBD, but I think the real progress has come, and will continue to come, from grinding out one win at a time in the urban core (including LaVilla), building-by-building, block-by-block.

Yes, if we had to map out degrees of prioritization, CBD (and the ideas you cited) would be considered first degree, filling up empty and yet already urbanized lots in LaVilla and other Northbank Districts would be degree 2, Sports Complex would be degree 3

Shipyards versus District is tricky.  I'd normally prioritize Shipyards over Southbank given Shipyards proximity to higher-degree zones on the Northbank, but given contamination issues and remediation costs at the Shipyards, and the fact that the Southbank is shovel-ready, perhaps the path forward isn't as clear.


Charles Hunter

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #172 on: April 25, 2018, 03:16:38 PM »
Is that true? That the JEA site needs no remediation? It has already been done?

KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #173 on: April 25, 2018, 03:21:00 PM »
Is that true? That the JEA site needs no remediation? It has already been done?

Clean bill of health.

https://residentnews.net/2017/08/02/major-hurdle-cleared-district-moves-forward-development/

Charles Hunter

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #174 on: April 25, 2018, 05:24:12 PM »

Tacachale

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #175 on: June 04, 2018, 02:03:35 PM »
Quote

Despite hiccups, Jacksonville ‘District’ development clears first City Council panel

A.G. GANCARSKI

On Monday, Jacksonville City Council’s Neighborhoods, Community Services, Public Health and Safety committee greenlit the ‘District‘ development plan.

That said, the bill did not pass without considerable discussion and consternation among myriad members of the panel before the 5-1 vote

HCA Ocala
The bill (2018-313) could transform the Southbank with its radical redevelopment of 30 acres at the former Southside Generating Station property next to the Duval County School Board building.

“The District will encompass approximately 200,000 square feet of retail space, 200,000 square feet of office space, 1,170 apartments/condominiums, and a 150-200 key hotel,” per a dedicated website to the project.

Politically connected developers Peter Rummell and Michael Munz have a deal via their Elements Development to buy the land for $18.6 million from the JEA Board. That deal closes July 18.

...


http://floridapolitics.com/archives/265289-jacksonville-district
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KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #176 on: June 04, 2018, 03:55:58 PM »
Quote

Despite hiccups, Jacksonville ‘District’ development clears first City Council panel

A.G. GANCARSKI

On Monday, Jacksonville City Council’s Neighborhoods, Community Services, Public Health and Safety committee greenlit the ‘District‘ development plan.

That said, the bill did not pass without considerable discussion and consternation among myriad members of the panel before the 5-1 vote

HCA Ocala
The bill (2018-313) could transform the Southbank with its radical redevelopment of 30 acres at the former Southside Generating Station property next to the Duval County School Board building.

“The District will encompass approximately 200,000 square feet of retail space, 200,000 square feet of office space, 1,170 apartments/condominiums, and a 150-200 key hotel,” per a dedicated website to the project.

Politically connected developers Peter Rummell and Michael Munz have a deal via their Elements Development to buy the land for $18.6 million from the JEA Board. That deal closes July 18.

...


http://floridapolitics.com/archives/265289-jacksonville-district

Wait, the public parking is metered?

I've honestly never taken the time to notice, but is public parking normally metered on the Southbank?

Why would the city invest so much public money in the District and then meter all the public parking? Seems to run counter to the entire philosophy of the development.

When we're investing so much to prop up our downtown to compete with the suburbs, I'll never understood why we then put downtown at a competitive disadvantage in charging for short-term parking.

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #177 on: June 04, 2018, 06:54:41 PM »
Just follow the money. Because it generates turnover and income in vibrant dense cities (that also have viable mass transit). Some see it as a potential source of income. It also drives some to parking garages (that are expensive to build) with are also set up to generate revenue for certain industries in the private sector.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:57:15 PM by thelakelander »
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Steve

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2018, 07:35:30 PM »
Development Agreement Approved by Full Council. Unless the Mayor Vetos (unlikely), then it's on Rummel and Munz. Godspeed.

MusicMan

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #179 on: June 13, 2018, 08:50:19 AM »
"That deal closes July 18th."

Unless it doesn't.