Author Topic: The District wants $26 million in public incentives  (Read 8077 times)

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2018, 02:05:49 PM »
Good, that's for the best.
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TimmyB

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2018, 02:35:12 PM »
This gets even more ridiculous.  According to the JBJ, Elements asked JEA to scrap that idea because it was "too complicated"!  Are you kidding me?  At the last minute, you try to cram something down everyone's throat, then go on the offensive and call council members out, as though THEY are standing in the way of "progress", and now you say "just kidding"?  Oh, and by the way, we need until July 18th.  Good grief.

Elements partner Michael Munz requested that plan be scrapped at the JEA board meeting Tuesday afternoon.

He said the transaction had become complicated with all the moving pieces and proposed JEA continue with a proposal that would see Elements purchase the property for $18.5 million by July 16.

“It became, as we went through this, putting all the legal parts together, more complicated than it should be,” he said after the meeting.

marcuscnelson

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2018, 04:51:49 PM »
This gets even more ridiculous.  According to the JBJ, Elements asked JEA to scrap that idea because it was "too complicated"!  Are you kidding me?  At the last minute, you try to cram something down everyone's throat, then go on the offensive and call council members out, as though THEY are standing in the way of "progress", and now you say "just kidding"?  Oh, and by the way, we need until July 18th.  Good grief.

Elements partner Michael Munz requested that plan be scrapped at the JEA board meeting Tuesday afternoon.

He said the transaction had become complicated with all the moving pieces and proposed JEA continue with a proposal that would see Elements purchase the property for $18.5 million by July 16.

“It became, as we went through this, putting all the legal parts together, more complicated than it should be,” he said after the meeting.


Alright, then.

They've given us a date. DIA and City Council should hold them to it. If the sun rises on July 17th and JEA still owns that property, dump Elements and ask for new offers, because at that point they're obviously not committed to going ahead with this project.

MusicMan

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2018, 05:25:47 PM »
Can we get a "Proof of Funds" from these jackasses please?

"Too complicated from all the moving pieces?"  The bozos are the ones moving all the pieces around, no one else.

I noted when they asked for this latest extension that there was no way it would happen as they stated it would. Lo and behold, they did not get it done and are asking for YET ANOTHER EXTENSION.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:18:27 PM by MusicMan »

jaxlongtimer

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #94 on: January 16, 2018, 10:46:14 PM »
Can we get a "Proof of Funds" from these jackasses please?

Great point!  Most Realtors won't waste time with potential buyers without first seeing that they can finance/close on what they are looking for.  Not at all unusual to require proof you can perform before bidding on a deal.  That should include proven experience and references.  Who wants to waste time with unqualified buyers.  This process should never have gotten to this point but, like Khan's deal, the #1 qualification is your political connections.

KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #95 on: January 16, 2018, 11:16:35 PM »
Can we get a "Proof of Funds" from these jackasses please?

Great point!  Most Realtors won't waste time with potential buyers without first seeing that they can finance/close on what they are looking for.  Not at all unusual to require proof you can perform before bidding on a deal.  That should include proven experience and references.  Who wants to waste time with unqualified buyers.

Proven experience? References? If you know anything about Peter Rummell's accomplishments over the last 40 years, this statement is patently absurd. The man has developed half the state. He's the former CEO of the the largest landholder in Florida, St. Joe Company. He was a Chairman at Disney, and developed all of Celebration. And despite having four decades of success elsewhere, the guy is Jacksonville through-and-through. He founded, and funded, One Spark. He co-chaired the committee that brought Super Bowl 39 to Jacksonville.

Disagree all you want with the details of the project, but to suggest that perhaps the most proven developer in the city, if not one of the most proven developers in the state, needs to submit references? Really?
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vicupstate

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2018, 11:19:52 PM »
He doesn't work for either of those companies now does he?  He has expertise and knowledge, but does he have the half a billion needed to build it?
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #97 on: January 17, 2018, 12:17:28 AM »
Can we get a "Proof of Funds" from these jackasses please?

Great point!  Most Realtors won't waste time with potential buyers without first seeing that they can finance/close on what they are looking for.  Not at all unusual to require proof you can perform before bidding on a deal.  That should include proven experience and references.  Who wants to waste time with unqualified buyers.

Proven experience? References? If you know anything about Peter Rummell's accomplishments over the last 40 years, this statement is patently absurd. The man has developed half the state. He's the former CEO of the the largest landholder in Florida, St. Joe Company. He was a Chairman at Disney, and developed all of Celebration. And despite having four decades of success elsewhere, the guy is Jacksonville through-and-through. He founded, and funded, One Spark. He co-chaired the committee that brought Super Bowl 39 to Jacksonville.

Disagree all you want with the details of the project, but to suggest that perhaps the most proven developer in the city, if not one of the most proven developers in the state, needs to submit references? Really?

Well, if you follow St. Joe, check out how, even though it started with about 1,000,000 acres of Florida land (mostly bought during the depression by Ed Ball for as little as $1/acre) and 60 miles of Gulf of Mexico waterfront, it ended up as a troubled company whose stock, per Yahoo Finance was on a downhill swing when Rummell left it and has tread water ever since.  How do you blow Rivertown sitting on miles of some of the prettiest land in the state along the St. John's river?  How does that happen when you have these lands on the books for almost nothing?  It sure doesn't take a genius to make money starting out with such opportunities but it takes special management to blow it.

Disney is not much different.  Cheap land purchases and Disney's name and unlimited resources are like the keys to Ft. Knox.  I've been to Celebration and am not impressed.  And, check out some of its reviews over the years with comments like this:
Quote
Other issues dogged Celebration as the years wore on, too. It emerged that the builders who had constructed the homes had been under-qualified and over-rushed, and nearly all of the buildings had problems within a few years.
https://gizmodo.com/celebration-florida-the-utopian-town-that-america-jus-1564479405

By the way, this is Rummell on his own, not with existing hundreds of millions or billions of others' dollars placed in his hands.  I am not saying he isn't smart or experienced, but he is playing with a whole different context here.  How many "District" type developments has he led with his own capital on the line and not having a "cast of supporting thousands" and "deep pockets" on board from day one?  Lastly, development is a risky business not for the feint of heart.  If you are selling land, it is because you are transferring its development risk to the buyer.  As such, you should be assured you can close your deal and get paid because no one is immune to failure.

marcuscnelson

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2018, 03:14:41 AM »

Proven experience? References? If you know anything about Peter Rummell's accomplishments over the last 40 years, this statement is patently absurd. The man has developed half the state. He's the former CEO of the the largest landholder in Florida, St. Joe Company. He was a Chairman at Disney, and developed all of Celebration. And despite having four decades of success elsewhere, the guy is Jacksonville through-and-through. He founded, and funded, One Spark. He co-chaired the committee that brought Super Bowl 39 to Jacksonville.

Disagree all you want with the details of the project, but to suggest that perhaps the most proven developer in the city, if not one of the most proven developers in the state, needs to submit references? Really?

Is that really that impressive though? Like jaxlongtimer said, most of those were using other people's money and managing to not screw things up. Disney has enough oversight to prevent everything imploding, Celebration seems to have issues and Disney's mostly separated itself at this point, He bungled Rivertown until Mattamy bought it, and the company he ran to do it is apparently not doing great, OneSpark basically collapsed until Bold Events bailed it out, and now he's wasted three years of valuable development time on The District with nothing to show for it.

If we'd given it to RocaPoint three years ago, maybe there'd at least be shovels in the ground. Sure, the development would be less interesting, but it'd be on the tax rolls and have the potential to improve, versus the same plot of grass from three years ago.

MusicMan

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #99 on: January 17, 2018, 08:32:40 AM »
I agree that he has done impressive things. However, if you read the e mail he sent out when he found out about a panel being created to review the new financial arrangements for the 3 year old deal HE had not been able to close on, it read like a spoiled child being asked for homework.  Not like an experienced CEO who understood why a Buyer or partner in a deal might want to see things more thoroughly explained or fleshed out.   That e mail was/is in my opinion a very telling document.

P.S. You can find that e mail in a related thread on MJ somewhere.

One of the best things to come out of this debacle is that, reading the message boards here and on the JBJ, and the TU, there is nearly 100% agreement that this rearrangement of financing at the last minute is horse manure. People got a nice whiff of it and stayed away. Hooray for Jax!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 08:55:35 AM by MusicMan »

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2018, 10:54:49 PM »
That's more like it; now let's move forward with this project and quit tap dancing.
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