Poll

Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?

Yes
4 (10.3%)
No
35 (89.7%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Voting closed: February 27, 2018, 12:55:01 PM

Author Topic: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?  (Read 14434 times)

Steve

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2018, 09:26:18 AM »
I think Kyle Billy wrote that email in the manner that he did because it was public record.

Steve

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2018, 09:27:57 AM »
With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2018, 09:33:22 AM »
^^ This ^^  8)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

sanmarcomatt

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2018, 10:03:01 AM »
With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

Exactly. No matter what you think of Curry's motives, this is a sensible thing to review. Considering what happened with utility sales in 2017 combined with what may be the end of cheap money, if the city is going to sell, now is likely the best time. There are many variables to consider but if the net to the city is high enough it could be a no-brainer when compared to future revenues.
 Of course I am very concerned about something similar to FPL with sky rocketing residential rates, rolling blackouts, and their employees kept in a gulag working for bowls of gruel whipped by Evil Private Warlords.

I assume that those that are questioning what a windfall could possibly be used for don't have much time for following the city budget.

vicupstate

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2018, 10:13:48 AM »
With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

It is worth investigating, but when all the signs point to a predetermined outcome, it taints the whole process. You can't trust what has been done thus far.

What might be beneficial in the short term might be very detrimental in the long term. That was exactly the case with Pension Reform. Kick the can down the road, and let someone else worry about it later.

While the upside MIGHT be worth it, I don't see how you can expect to sell JEA without expecting significant job losses and unquestionably less local management control and far less control over rates.     
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sanmarcomatt

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2018, 10:36:03 AM »
With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

It is worth investigating, but when all the signs point to a predetermined outcome, it taints the whole process. You can't trust what has been done thus far.

What might be beneficial in the short term might be very detrimental in the long term. That was exactly the case with Pension Reform. Kick the can down the road, and let someone else worry about it later.

While the upside MIGHT be worth it, I don't see how you can expect to sell JEA without expecting significant job losses and unquestionably less local management control and far less control over rates.     

Agree  the process will likely be sketchy.I wouldn't  trust Curry Admin as far as I could throw it considering tax payers will have trouble walking the next 30 years thanks to the "negotiating". But I am hopeful(maybe naive) that the council will actually do their job this time.

Considering the industry, I would say knowing if a sale/no sale will be beneficial in the long term is impossible.

I would only put it at 100% that with a sale you can expect " significant job losses ,less local management control, and far less control over rates. "  :)

Tacachale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2018, 11:57:44 AM »
I just wish the council had reacted like this way with the Pension "debate" instead of laying down like worthless dogs while allowing Curry to Delaney the tax payer.

LOL! You are so full of shit, Matt.

You don't think the council laid down? Did you read the transcripts of those meetings? They were a joke.

On second thought. do you actually think the Curry Pension changes were good for Jacksonville? If so, I will take the "full of shit" as quite the compliment.

I should've included some winking emojis. It was partially meant in jest, a comment directed at your tendency to bloviate with not-insignificant regularity about the pension in unrelated threads. ;) (that work?)

Neither the pension issue nor the JEA sale are black and white. When John Delaney, my father, left office, the pension was fully funded and the benefits to the cops and firefighters were perfectly reasonable. The troubles came up in subsequent years as the unions convinced the city to start adding benefits without investing more money. That came to a head in a little historical event known as the Great Recession, and just got worse after several years of failure to pass reform by the city.

Curry didn't create this problem, he inherited it, but he stepped up to try and resolve it. And there was no way of treating the problem without more money going in. Some people like to dream that it all could have been washed away by just stripping more benefits from the cops and firefighters. Even if that were a good idea (it's not), it's literally impossible. The unions have *no reason* to go along with something like that. And they don't just "lie down like worthless dogs" because our local financial geniuses think it would be cooler if they did. ;) How much longer should we have waited around for an impossibility?

Moving back to the JEA sale, your comment seems to suggest that the Council and Curry should be fighting as a matter of course. I disagree, that just creates perpetual stalemate. Especially for something like this, which is mostly an intellectual disagreement between two sides who presumably both feel their position to be the most efficacious. It's something to sort out and move forward, not to stay at loggerheads over forever.

Ba ha ha ha ha. I didn't know Delaney was your father. That explains your reaction! Too funny. And it certainly explains your "pension education".

I am well aware of your fathers history with the pension and his interviews regarding the 2001 agreement, amendments, and how he "left the pension". And, this financial genius says he is "full of shit" :)

Ok, we are on to JEA.

On a side note, If anyone ever wants to get a real pension education , I am always willing to discuss it and my fee is a coffee, preferably at a San Marco location. PM me as slots always fill up fast.

Well if a financial genius says it, it must be true. Oh, if only people had listened to San Marco Matt, it all could have been avoided!

I'll take you up on that offer of coffee, though I don't particularly want to discuss the pension - not because I think you're full of shit anymore, but because I think you're so full of financial brilliance that it would blow my simple bumpkin mind  ;D

All other topics accepted. I'm in San Marco too.
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Tacachale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2018, 12:03:06 PM »
With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

It is worth investigating, but when all the signs point to a predetermined outcome, it taints the whole process. You can't trust what has been done thus far.

What might be beneficial in the short term might be very detrimental in the long term. That was exactly the case with Pension Reform. Kick the can down the road, and let someone else worry about it later.

While the upside MIGHT be worth it, I don't see how you can expect to sell JEA without expecting significant job losses and unquestionably less local management control and far less control over rates.   

I doubt it's possible to reckon all the contingencies decades in the future. But the status quo isn't necessarily the best option just because it's the path of least resistance. Public ownership hasn't meant that JEA has always been well run or made the best decisions for the ratepayers/city. But yes, vetting any change should be thorough and in the open.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 02:13:02 PM by Tacachale »
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

vicupstate

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2018, 01:34:53 PM »
I wonder if there are examples of cities that sold their electric business 5-10 years ago. It would be interesting to see the results thus far. Albeit so many things are different from state to state regardless. 
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thelakelander

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Steve

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2018, 04:41:06 PM »
https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/2017/10/18/florida-power-light-co-sends-vero-beach-contract-185-million-electric-sale/775408001/

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/14/business/energy-environment/cities-weigh-taking-electricity-business-from-private-utilities.html

The NY Times article is particularly interesting. They talk about how municipal utilities tend to pay their executives more on par with government officials versus private business, and how after hurricanes they tend to have the power restored in days versus a week or two.

Interesting....

Noone

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2018, 01:10:44 AM »
Right now the poll to sell JEA is 31 NO and 4 YES
Poll closes 2/27/18

It’s easier here.

JaxAvondale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2018, 11:04:27 AM »
I’m still on the fence with Yes or No. Until the city can provide the public with the benefits of selling JEA, it’s hard to vote yes. If the city said we are going to payoff the pension debt and start infrastructure improvements on certain projects within the 5 years from the date of the sale then maybe more people would be open to the idea of the sale.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 12:16:19 PM by JaxAvondale »

JagGator823

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2018, 12:13:43 PM »
I’m still on the fence with Yes or No. Until the city can provide the public with the benefits of selling JEA, it’s hard to vote yes. If the city said we are going to payoff the pension debt and start infrastructure improvements on certain projects within the 5 years from the date of the sale then maybe more people would be open to the idea of the same.

Totally agree.

Just one minute detail I wanted to point out. Pension liabilities aren't really something that can be "paid off" in the same way a mortgage can (unless pensioners agree to a buyout). Sale proceeds would likely be added to the fund's invested assets, potentially reducing taxpayer's future contributions, but not necessarily reducing our liability. One of my concerns is that given the current market environment, its probably a good time to sell an asset, but isn't really a good time to invest in public markets. Not saying i'm for or against reducing the pension burden on taxpayers , I would just like to see more details before anything is done.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2018, 07:49:32 AM »
http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/20180225/sundays-editorial-will-jea-be-only-monopoly-left-standing

Quote
Sunday’s Editorial: Will JEA be the only monopoly left standing?

By Times-Union Editorial Board
Posted Feb 25, 2018 at 2:01 AM     
Civic-minded people have been asking recently, why the sudden interest in selling JEA?

What has changed?

Actually, there are two changes, one visible and one not so obvious...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."