Poll

Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?

Yes
No

Voting closes: February 27, 2018, 12:55:01 PM

Author Topic: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?  (Read 6552 times)

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 09:12:29 AM »
Here is the actual draft report...

http://www.jacksonville.com/assets/pdf/LK153528.PDF
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Lostwave

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 09:21:53 AM »
The worst thing about doing this, is you can never un do it.  JEA is owned by the taxpayers and should remain so.  There is no reason that a utility should be privatized.  Then whoever owns the private company makes a profit coming out of our pockets.  It needs to be a non-profit business to serve the community.


Josh

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 09:32:04 AM »
I assume JEA in it's current form is a community asset... Is it?  Perhaps the time is coming where it is no longer an asset but a net loss?  I read that Curry is supportive of the idea... but what does that really mean? 

This whole process is Curry's doing. He wants a windfall for the city to fund his next political "win."

Clearly that is the opinion of many... yet I have yet to see any real evidence of it...

I doubt you'll ever get "evidence," but...

Quote
Tom Petway — one of Curry’s closest financial backers — put the entire sale process in motion last year when he suggested in his final meeting as a JEA board member that the utility explore the option, a move Curry quickly supported publicly.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180212/council-president-rejects-calling-wednesday-meeting-on-jea-sale-so-mayor-calls-one-himself

FlaBoy

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 10:13:32 AM »
Which municipalities still own their utility company? I know Gainesville does. Tampa and Orlando (or their counties) do not. Neither does Pinellas. South Florida has FPL.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 10:28:03 AM »
I assume JEA in it's current form is a community asset... Is it?  Perhaps the time is coming where it is no longer an asset but a net loss?  I read that Curry is supportive of the idea... but what does that really mean? 

This whole process is Curry's doing. He wants a windfall for the city to fund his next political "win."

Clearly that is the opinion of many... yet I have yet to see any real evidence of it...

I doubt you'll ever get "evidence," but...

Quote
Tom Petway — one of Curry’s closest financial backers — put the entire sale process in motion last year when he suggested in his final meeting as a JEA board member that the utility explore the option, a move Curry quickly supported publicly.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180212/council-president-rejects-calling-wednesday-meeting-on-jea-sale-so-mayor-calls-one-himself


Sooo because Petway suggested they explore the options it is a bad thing?  here is the opening of the draft document...

Quote
Introduction
On November 28, 2017, in his final meeting as a Director of the JEA Board, Mr. Thomas Petway posed the
following questions…

“Would the customers of JEA and the people of Jacksonville be better served in the private marketplace?”
“Should JEA and the city of Jacksonville consider the financial benefits that would come from the
privatization of JEA?”

This topic has been raised and studied in the past. The conclusions of prior studies were that the City and
the ratepayers would be better served by having JEA remain in place as a municipally-owned utility. But
as Mr. Petway accurately stated at the November meeting, the utility market is vastly different than when
JEA was formed in 1967. Further, the utility market is quite different than it was just five years ago when
this topic was last studied.

The outlook for the future of the utility industry, and specifically for the electric utility industry, is as
uncertain as it has ever been. Continued advances in technology will impact both energy demand and
energy supply. Technology has led to tremendous leaps forward in energy efficiency, resulting in reduced
energy demand; while potential growth in electric vehicle adoption could replace that demand in the
upcoming decade. On the supply side, we have seen coal go out of favor due to environmental concerns,
and nuclear due to cost concerns; while natural gas-fired and renewable generation costs have declined
dramatically. The prospects for continued change can be argued to make the utility industry more volatile
and riskier than it has been in the past.

The rapidly changing nature of the utility industry supports the need for the City and JEA to reevaluate
questions that have been asked and answered in the past. As a result of Mr. Petway’s questions and
suggestions, JEA’s new Board Chair Mr. Alan Howard made the following request of JEA’s CEO, Mr. Paul
McElroy…“…take up that challenge, evaluate our prospective position in the marketplace, and report back
on what the private market value of JEA may be so the citizens of Jacksonville and the mayor and other
constituencies — City Council — can evaluate that opportunity.”
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 10:41:53 AM »
The mayor plays things pretty close to the chest, but if this isn't his own initiative, he'd be very supportive. It's being moved forward by the JEA board, who are all Curry appointees (when he took office, he pushed out all the board members appointed by Mayor Brown). A number of news articles citing insiders speak to Curry's support of the move, even if he's mostly staying quiet about it so far; his adviser (now Chief of Staff) Brian Hughes was quoted as saying:

Quote

“It’s very real. There will be a serious look at it,” Curry’s political adviser Brian Hughes told Sunshine State News about the idea. “Lenny is a former accountant who was an entrepreneur. He’s a free market Republican. It’s consistent with his ideology.”


Anna Brosche has said Curry pushed for a council meeting to move the sale forward, and wanted emergency legislation to that end. He denies that he wanted emergency legislation, but he did go ahead and call the meeting when Council wouldn't do it. The fact that he then launched a frontal assault on Anna Brosche for merely suggesting that supported the topic of this meeting he wanted doesn't exactly speak toward his neutrality on this issue. On another note, this tendency of Curry and his agents to go beast mode on folks who give insufficient support to his initiatives is the single worst thing about Curry's term as mayor.

Regardless of who's ultimately behind the plan, the real question is what supporters think we'd get out of it. It really would just be the windfall from the initial sale, as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now. There are claims that privatization would reduce prices for consumers, but I haven't seen anything to support that.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Josh

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 10:44:49 AM »
I assume JEA in it's current form is a community asset... Is it?  Perhaps the time is coming where it is no longer an asset but a net loss?  I read that Curry is supportive of the idea... but what does that really mean? 

This whole process is Curry's doing. He wants a windfall for the city to fund his next political "win."

Clearly that is the opinion of many... yet I have yet to see any real evidence of it...

I doubt you'll ever get "evidence," but...

Quote
Tom Petway — one of Curry’s closest financial backers — put the entire sale process in motion last year when he suggested in his final meeting as a JEA board member that the utility explore the option, a move Curry quickly supported publicly.

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180212/council-president-rejects-calling-wednesday-meeting-on-jea-sale-so-mayor-calls-one-himself


Sooo because Petway suggested they explore the options it is a bad thing?  here is the opening of the draft document...

Quote
Introduction
On November 28, 2017, in his final meeting as a Director of the JEA Board, Mr. Thomas Petway posed the
following questions…

“Would the customers of JEA and the people of Jacksonville be better served in the private marketplace?”
“Should JEA and the city of Jacksonville consider the financial benefits that would come from the
privatization of JEA?”

This topic has been raised and studied in the past. The conclusions of prior studies were that the City and
the ratepayers would be better served by having JEA remain in place as a municipally-owned utility. But
as Mr. Petway accurately stated at the November meeting, the utility market is vastly different than when
JEA was formed in 1967. Further, the utility market is quite different than it was just five years ago when
this topic was last studied.

The outlook for the future of the utility industry, and specifically for the electric utility industry, is as
uncertain as it has ever been. Continued advances in technology will impact both energy demand and
energy supply. Technology has led to tremendous leaps forward in energy efficiency, resulting in reduced
energy demand; while potential growth in electric vehicle adoption could replace that demand in the
upcoming decade. On the supply side, we have seen coal go out of favor due to environmental concerns,
and nuclear due to cost concerns; while natural gas-fired and renewable generation costs have declined
dramatically. The prospects for continued change can be argued to make the utility industry more volatile
and riskier than it has been in the past.

The rapidly changing nature of the utility industry supports the need for the City and JEA to reevaluate
questions that have been asked and answered in the past. As a result of Mr. Petway’s questions and
suggestions, JEA’s new Board Chair Mr. Alan Howard made the following request of JEA’s CEO, Mr. Paul
McElroy…“…take up that challenge, evaluate our prospective position in the marketplace, and report back
on what the private market value of JEA may be so the citizens of Jacksonville and the mayor and other
constituencies — City Council — can evaluate that opportunity.”

I never said it was a "bad thing," just that given who Petway is, the fact he started this action on his last day on the board, and how everything has unfolded since then, I would be amazed if this didn't ultimately originate from Curry.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 10:48:29 AM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

KenFSU

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 10:55:38 AM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.

JEA is currently contributing ~$120 million a year to the general fund.
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Gunnar

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 10:58:30 AM »
Wouldn't paying property taxes decrease their overall profits and thus their other taxes ?
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Tacachale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2018, 11:19:28 AM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.

JEA is currently contributing ~$120 million a year to the general fund.

Correct.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

KenFSU

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2018, 11:27:36 AM »
Big League City! 100 Years of Football in Jacksonville, with foreword by Shad Khan, now available!
http://www.amazon.com/Big-League-City-Football-Jacksonville/dp/0990342409/

camarocane

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2018, 11:29:45 AM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.

If an IOU purchases JEA and breaks off the water and sewer side, we wouldn't see close to a 10% increase.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 12:30:44 PM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.

JEA is currently contributing ~$120 million a year to the general fund.

Correct.

Can this amount change...ie increase?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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Re: Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 12:33:50 PM »
Quote
as the tax money that would be generated from a private JEA would be far less than the contribution JEA pays to the city right now.

This is from the draft report...

Quote
Property Taxes vs. City Contribution

As a municipal utility, JEA does not pay property taxes on its land and assets; as an alternative JEA
pays an annual contribution in lieu of taxes. Should a private entity take the place of JEA, the taxable
assessed value of property in Duval County could increase by approximately 10% (the addition of
~$5bn net capital assets on the City’s ~$50bn taxable base). Based on current millage rates, this
increase in assessed value will equate to approximately $101 million of additional property taxes
receipts, of which $63.5 million would go the City of Jacksonville General Fund. Most of the
remainder would go toward funding public schools.

JEA is currently contributing ~$120 million a year to the general fund.

Correct.

Can this amount change...ie increase?

It can change. One of Mayor Brown's pension ideas was to lower the annual contribution in exchange for a one-time lump sum payment to pay down the pension. It was a bad idea, as the city would have been out a lot of money in the long run. I don't know why JEA would go along with an increase unless they got some concession out of it, which may or may not be a good deal for the city.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?