Author Topic: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building  (Read 4052 times)

Jim

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 04:22:59 PM »
It's all fool's gold.  The new projects going up in LaVilla aren't going to result in this particular property increasing in value. In fact, it's declined in value due to no upkeep during 23 years of public ownership. No matter what goes up around it, it's still a property with no off-street parking, no on-street parking, no chance of adding either, that's collapsed on itself, due to neglect by the owner. If COJ was really concerned about sales prices, perhaps the prudent move would have been to maintain the building, so it would at least have value. That didn't happen, so all you have at this point is four walls to work with. If a group is willing to put their money into fixing up this site and returning it to the tax rolls, COJ should take whatever the market is willing to pay.
There is parking in the rear but I'm not sure how much is allocated to the retail outlet on the corner.  There is also a 1/10th acre lot for sale directly behind the rear parking lot for sale. Zoned CRO so the parking lot could be extended.

thelakelander

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 07:07:35 PM »


The parking in the rear (618 Duval) is owned by property owner on the corner (326 Broad). The on-street parking was removed a couple of years ago for the BRT lanes on Broad. All that's available are spaces that are generally already used on Monroe and Duval. This piece of property is literally four walls with a roof and second floor caved in. Short of saving the facade, you're literally building a new structure on a small parcel that will still have no on or off-street parking and no foot traffic. The numbers desired for the sale of the property already make it not worth it from a market rate perspective. Instead of spending more money (making the proforma worse) to by another parcel divided from the property, anyone not doing this out of love for LaVilla's history, is better off investing their money elsewhere. I'd hope the realities of the site would be seriously considered by the DIA, with any deal to sell it.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jim

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 12:17:12 AM »
I was trying to give them the most devil's advocate I could. I figured most of the rear parking was allocated (owned) by the corner optics retailer and that tiny lot for sale between 618 and 628 is too out of place (and limited in maneuverability for parking).   

They should have taken the money.

MusicMan

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 03:17:55 PM »
"Acquired by the city in 1994 for $34,300, a September appraisal by Florida Valuation assessed the 4,104-square-foot building at $180,000. 

According to DIA Operations Manager Guy Parola, the roof and second story have caved in.

“There’s little more than a facade left,” Parola said during the meeting. "

Then's it's worth what they paid, at most. $34,300  AT MOST!

I would like to add, "acquired by the City in 1994" and as Ennis has pointed out, not so much as a tarp put over the roof. That is what happens when COJ acquires property. They watch it melt into the earth.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 03:23:07 PM by MusicMan »

Gunnar

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 07:47:12 AM »
Lake: You seem to take this issue personally...

I want to live in a society where people can voice unpopular opinions because I know that as a result of that, a society grows and matures...” — Hugh Hefner

thelakelander

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 08:31:20 AM »
As I learn more about Jax's treatment towards its African-American history and the national significance of what's being ignored, I've recognized the importance of preserving and reusing the little that's left. This stretch of Broad, along with a few scattered buildings on Ashley is Jax's version of Beale St (Memphis), Sweet Auburn (Atlanta), Jackson Ward (Richmond), Bronzeville (Chicago), Harlem, etc. I hate to see us piss redevelopment opportunities away due to shortsightedness.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

lowlyplanner

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 08:39:48 AM »
I don't think the City has really grappled with what was done in LaVilla.  You still find City employees and politicians who think the urban renewal plan was a good one.

thelakelander

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 08:48:12 AM »
They're typically the first ones that have no idea about the neighborhood's history or the cultural significance of the people who live, worked, played, stayed and operated businesses within the few boarded up structures that remain.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxnyc79

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 10:22:06 AM »
Jax is an odd place.  The council is comprised of representatives from far-flung corners of the county.  I’m guessing many of them have never lived in a walkable, dense, urban area.  It’s almost as though the “old part of urban Jacksonville” needs a sub-council, made up of actual residents, who should only have to go to City Council for massive actions.  The DIA isn’t really a governing body for the core - it seems more like an RFP machine scouring the landscape for economic catalysts to incentivize. 

Tacachale

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 11:12:26 AM »
^In my experience, there was, and to an extent still is, a lack of understanding about why historic preservation is important, or why smaller and/or dilapidated buildings are still significant and worth saving. There was even a lack of understanding that removing most of the buildings would effectively be the end of the neighborhood. So, even some of the folks interested in LaVilla's history didn't realize that bulldozing the buildings would be so bad. LaVilla stands out compared to some other places that have been replaced because virtually nothing has cropped up there in 25 years. It puts the lie to the idea that demolishing buildings will bring in new growth.

There's also an element of Jaxsons' traditional inferiority complex and failure to recognize our own contributions as important. We're still fighting that.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Gunnar

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 11:22:43 AM »
Here's a pretty nice article on preservation:

http://mcmansionhell.com/post/167459130501/looking-around-reflections-on-preservation

Quote
Buildings are worth saving for several reasons. Sometimes, a building has an interesting cultural history - perhaps an important person was born there, or it was the site of a burgeoning subculture, or an important historical event. Sometimes a building is worth preserving because it is a particularly good example of its architectural style, or because it’s the only example of its particular style in the surrounding area.
Sometimes a building is worth preserving simply because it is beautiful, old, or built by a famous architect.
I want to live in a society where people can voice unpopular opinions because I know that as a result of that, a society grows and matures...” — Hugh Hefner

Tacachale

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 11:23:16 AM »
Jax is an odd place.  The council is comprised of representatives from far-flung corners of the county.  I’m guessing many of them have never lived in a walkable, dense, urban area.  It’s almost as though the “old part of urban Jacksonville” needs a sub-council, made up of actual residents, who should only have to go to City Council for massive actions.  The DIA isn’t really a governing body for the core - it seems more like an RFP machine scouring the landscape for economic catalysts to incentivize.

One of the downsides of Consolidation was that the urban core no longer has its own identity or the ability to come all together. As such it's easier to overlook how much the core continues to struggle considering that other parts of the city are booming. Individual neighborhoods have created organizations that have had a positive impact, but it's entirely driven by dedicated people within those neighborhoods. Because Downtown has so few people living there it has never had a group like that who can advocate for it as a neighborhood. The closest we have is DVI, and that's mainly a business organization and not primarily people who live downtown. DIA is a government organization made up of government folks, who also don't usually live there. Then we have the developers and advisers, who generally have their heart in the right place, but often don't have the background to know what really works when it comes to revitalization.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Gunnar

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2017, 11:35:06 AM »
As I learn more about Jax's treatment towards its African-American history and the national significance of what's being ignored, I've recognized the importance of preserving and reusing the little that's left. This stretch of Broad, along with a few scattered buildings on Ashley is Jax's version of Beale St (Memphis), Sweet Auburn (Atlanta), Jackson Ward (Richmond), Bronzeville (Chicago), Harlem, etc. I hate to see us piss redevelopment opportunities away due to shortsightedness.

Couldn't agree more with you Lake.

For me, the best thing the City could do is give these buildings away for free to whoever has the best plan to restore it.
Disclaimer: Of course the contract should be written in a way that the building remains the COJ's property until all obligations have been fulfilled, i.e. the building is completely done.

They could sell empty lots cheaper if something is rebuilt on them that is either the original building (in the case of historically or architecturally relevant buildings) or built in the same style as the old ones were.

Frankfurt is trying something similar with their Dom Romer area, which I think is nice.

http://www.domroemer.de/english-information
I want to live in a society where people can voice unpopular opinions because I know that as a result of that, a society grows and matures...” — Hugh Hefner

jaxnyc79

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2017, 12:49:15 PM »
Jax is an odd place.  The council is comprised of representatives from far-flung corners of the county.  I’m guessing many of them have never lived in a walkable, dense, urban area.  It’s almost as though the “old part of urban Jacksonville” needs a sub-council, made up of actual residents, who should only have to go to City Council for massive actions.  The DIA isn’t really a governing body for the core - it seems more like an RFP machine scouring the landscape for economic catalysts to incentivize.

One of the downsides of Consolidation was that the urban core no longer has its own identity or the ability to come all together. As such it's easier to overlook how much the core continues to struggle considering that other parts of the city are booming. Individual neighborhoods have created organizations that have had a positive impact, but it's entirely driven by dedicated people within those neighborhoods. Because Downtown has so few people living there it has never had a group like that who can advocate for it as a neighborhood. The closest we have is DVI, and that's mainly a business organization and not primarily people who live downtown. DIA is a government organization made up of government folks, who also don't usually live there. Then we have the developers and advisers, who generally have their heart in the right place, but often don't have the background to know what really works when it comes to revitalization.

Yes, Jacksonville must continue to ask some tough questions about the area it defines as its downtown.  I could be wrong, but my sense is that the COJ is focused on making downtown a type of quasi-theme park for suburbanites.  Is that the grand vision, or what makes sense for the city?  Or is the plan to make it another lifestyle option for those who desire a dense, walkable, urban experience?  Or is downtown supposed to make a grand statement of identity about the city and region to outsiders?  Is downtown really just a branding project...an expression of cultural values?

If revenue resulting from growth in every part of the county flows into the same coffers, what makes downtown so special?  Is there some sort of enhanced revenue that results from growth and development in the core versus growth and development on the southside or near the beaches?

What specifically is downtown’s target state - the point at which it no longer needs special treatment - or will it always have special needs because of some grand cultural role it plays in the history and evolution of the city?

vicupstate

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Re: DIA rejects 3 offers to buy vacant LaVilla building
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2017, 01:39:29 PM »
Quote
If revenue resulting from growth in every part of the county flows into the same coffers, what makes downtown so special?  Is there some sort of enhanced revenue that results from growth and development in the core versus growth and development on the southside or near the beaches?

What specifically is downtown’s target state - the point at which it no longer needs special treatment - or will it always have special needs because of some grand cultural role it plays in the history and evolution of the city?

Most suburban growth cost MORE in services and infrastructure than they return. This is why taxes continue to rise even in the face of steady growth. Urban growth typical returns more money than it requires in services. This is because of the density involved, the higher property values that normally exist and the fact that the infrastructure was already in place.

Historically DT JAX, like most cities, produced far more revenue than it required, such that it helped with the deficit created by suburban growth.  However, that surplus has dramatically been reduced by the falling property values from the recession, offices leaving for the suburbs and the resulting vacancy.     
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 01:41:50 PM by vicupstate »
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