Author Topic: JAX/JIA updates  (Read 62720 times)

jaxdan3

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #300 on: September 10, 2020, 10:01:19 AM »
Today Jetblue announced new flights and cities like Charleston SC are getting a LAX flight and Richmond VA is getting flights to LAX and Las Vegas.  It's kinda pathetic that cities much smaller than JAX are able to get these flights.  I'm starting to think the management team at JAX needs a shakeup or something as we have lost so many more routes than we've gained the last 2 years.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #301 on: September 10, 2020, 10:18:29 AM »
Today Jetblue announced new flights and cities like Charleston SC are getting a LAX flight and Richmond VA is getting flights to LAX and Las Vegas.  It's kinda pathetic that cities much smaller than JAX are able to get these flights.  I'm starting to think the management team at JAX needs a shakeup or something as we have lost so many more routes than we've gained the last 2 years.

There are a few differences here. Charleston is still a large tourist destination, which explains the LAX flight.

I mean, we were the second fastest growing airport in the country before the whole world got sick. Plus VanLoh hasn't been here that long.

That said, JAX-LAX is an interesting market. JetBlue is making LAX a Focus City, which I'm not sure I completely get to be honest (though their NYC strategy has worked). Delta tried this route now about 10 years ago and it simply didn't work. The flight times were good (not great), but they couldn't fill the plane. At all. Back when Delta did their "last minute deals" emails you could get this route for $99 each way almost every weekend.

I think the challenge JAX has is the complete lack of tourism compared to other places. I don't know how this plays into Richmond, but Charleston is Charleston. Until JAX can improve here, we are going to struggle.

jaxdan3

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #302 on: September 10, 2020, 10:50:27 AM »
I agree with the points you make Steve but the airlines have been taking larger risks lately trying to find anything to stick and we still aren't seeing new routes added.  All the other Florida cities (Tampa, Orlando, Ft. Meyers, Miami) have seen an increase in new routes over the last month or two.  I know Jacksonville doesn't have as much to do as those other cities but there's still golf, beaches, warm weather etc.

jaxjags

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #303 on: September 10, 2020, 12:34:35 PM »
JAX is a business market. That business has not returned and may be awhile. As it is a business market, travelers prefer a 1 hour flight to ATL to get the best connection they need on business to LA. If on Delta, they actually get more points going through ATL and don't need to take a eye home if they don't want too.

Also remember Charleston business traffic has increased substantially due to Boeing. They now have three or four operations there, including and engine technology group. Requires technical type travel from the west coast.

As to Richmond, Jet Blue may be adding an alternative to Dulles and BWI.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #304 on: September 10, 2020, 02:15:28 PM »
Today Jetblue announced new flights and cities like Charleston SC are getting a LAX flight and Richmond VA is getting flights to LAX and Las Vegas.  It's kinda pathetic that cities much smaller than JAX are able to get these flights.  I'm starting to think the management team at JAX needs a shakeup or something as we have lost so many more routes than we've gained the last 2 years.

Other points that may be in Richmond's favor are that (1) it is centrally located gateway to most of Virginia (e.g. Charlottesville/Univ. of Va., Blue Ridge/Shenandoah Valley, etc.) and maybe even West Virginia, aside from becoming an alternate airport to ever sprawling DC [Note that Amazon is about to put 25,000 employees in its Va. suburbs, only about 90 miles away, the distance from Jax to Daytona.], (2) other than DC and Norfolk, there isn't much until you hit Charlotte which is some distance away and (3) Richmond is a state capital which may bring in more national traffic for lobbying and/or other types of politicking.

Richmond also appears to have 7 or 8 Fortune 1,000 HQ's.  The largest ones include Altria (formerly Phillip Morris), Performance Food Group, CarMax and Dominion Energy, each $12 to $19 billion in size, and with the exception of Dominion, likely with extensive nationwide offices, plants and/or outlets (with the closing of relatively tiny Stein Mart, I can't think of any major Jax-based companies with such extensive nationwide footprints).  Add that it is home to two major and well regarded universities, Univ. of Richmond and Va. Commonwealth Univ.

Regarding businesses in Jax, one would think FIS/Fidelity/Black Knight and Fanatics, which have big operations/connections to Las Vegas and the LA or San Francisco area, would help support Jax getting these routes.  But, I am guessing these larger companies take advantage of their own or chartered corporate aircraft siphoning off potential commercial traffic one might otherwise expect to see.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 07:04:12 PM by jaxlongtimer »

minder

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #305 on: September 14, 2020, 06:16:07 PM »
The problem with the growth that had taken place pre covid, is that much of it was on existing routes where competition just became further squeezed, i.e 3 of the 4 spirit routes we got only last year have all since vanished and they were already on pre-served routes anyway (ORD, DTW, FLL). In terms of marquee routes that were added in recent times, YYZ is already gone. I expect passenger numbers would have been noticeably down next year regardless.

We lack the leisure amenities and the year round guaranteed warm weather of Central/South Florida, which is always going to work against us, however I don't get the defense of markets like Richmond or Charleston as if they are heavy hitters. They aren't and I just think their success is an indication of the level which the airport is at.

The lack of a West Coast route is a major concern, obviously. Hell, we don't even have Vegas anymore and looking at some of the markets with direct service to there just makes for depressing reading. Fargo, Shreveport, Peoria, if you are interested, and thats just some of the small markets I've heard of. Service to other major regional cities in the South East is also poor. Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham, these aren't exactly easy places to drive to or via other public transit, i.e. Amtrak. In terms of hubs, Dallas being our third strongest suggests a lot of our passengers are heading west and given we are served by every major market in the North East, I'd wager a large number of the ATL connecting passengers are also heading west. That is another issue. Are we Jacksonville Airport or Atlanta South Airport? We are virtually a shuttle for ATL at this point based on the passenger numbers.

So yeah, I'd agree a shakeup is sorely needed, pandemic or not.

SirJax

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #306 on: September 22, 2020, 08:01:43 AM »
United’s moves seem to be directed at leisure markets, which Jacksonville unfortunately has less to offer than Tampa, Orlando, SW and S. Fla.

Anyway, although leisure customers are important to airlines, their bread and butter has been business travel. While people aren’t going to stop taking vacations and visiting relatives after the pandemic is over, the future of business travel is much more uncertain due to structural/fundamental shifts in the way people work. With JAX being more of a business destination that definitely puts more uncertainty around the airport’s future growth.

That said, maybe it’s not all bad... Although the general direction is probably for reduced business travel, perhaps in a twist there may be positives for JAX in the overall context. Businesses may be looking to move out of denser cities and onto places like Jacksonville. Teleworkers might look to moving out of expensive mega-cities like say the SF Bay region to smaller places like Jax and might need to occasionally fly back to HQ which might stimulate some travel demand. Anyway, just trying to find the silver lining here folks  ;D

Pottsburg

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #307 on: September 22, 2020, 11:39:43 AM »
JAX is a business market. That business has not returned and may be awhile. As it is a business market, travelers prefer a 1 hour flight to ATL to get the best connection they need on business to LA. If on Delta, they actually get more points going through ATL and don't need to take a eye home if they don't want too.

Also remember Charleston business traffic has increased substantially due to Boeing. They now have three or four operations there, including and engine technology group. Requires technical type travel from the west coast.

As to Richmond, Jet Blue may be adding an alternative to Dulles and BWI.

   This is very true, I use to fly weekly through Atlanta for work.  My coworker who lived in Atlanta always complained that she didn't have enough segments to get the Diamond status.  Also one of the lovely ladies in the sky lounge once told me that there are more diamond medallion members on the Jax to Atl flight then any other on average.  I remember one year I was a only a Gold member and booked a day before.  I was last row middle seat but had a Diamond member next to me.  Crazy
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tufsu1

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #308 on: September 23, 2020, 01:24:18 PM »
New JD Power airport rankings were recently released. JIA is ranked #8 in medium size airports.

marcuscnelson

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #309 on: September 23, 2020, 01:29:03 PM »
Cool? What other airports are defined as medium size?
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CityLife

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #310 on: September 23, 2020, 01:51:49 PM »
Cool? What other airports are defined as medium size?
They classify them as Mega, Large, and Medium Size

Top 10 for Medium is:
Indianapolis
Palm Beach
Southwest Florida
Albuquerque
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Cinci
Jax
Milwaukee
Ontario

The state of Florida did very well with Miami as #2 Mega, Orlando as #8 Mega, Tampa as #3 Large, and 3 in the top 10 of Medium. FTL is the only major state airport that did poorly, finishing at the lower end of the Large category.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2020-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

jaxjaguar

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #311 on: September 23, 2020, 11:21:19 PM »
The state average should move up next year and in 2022 too. Orlando just partially opened their South Terminal expansion and it's quite impressive. The images I've seen inside the framing of the rest of the expansion look like it'll be very open and modern.