Author Topic: JAX/JIA updates  (Read 50566 times)

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #270 on: February 16, 2020, 10:22:27 AM »
I'd like to see cities such as Daytona, Pensacola, Gainesville, Savannah, Tallahassee, Panama City, etc., be routed thru JAX instead of CLT or ATL.  It would be preferable to those cities as well as JAX.  With the new concourse coming online about the same time as Breeze, it would work out well.

There are places in the Pacific Northwest that have that type of service, but take all of the cities you mentioned and take a 0 off the population. The airlines don’t do that anymore. Regional Jets have made that type of service obsolete unless the place is about 10% the size of Daytona and is many hours from another airport.

Snaketoz

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #271 on: February 16, 2020, 10:46:24 AM »
I agree.  I'm very familiar with Portland, OR (PDX)  There are many feeder flights on Dash aircraft from cities in the NW.  I think SLC is similar.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #272 on: February 16, 2020, 03:55:43 PM »
I agree.  I'm very familiar with Portland, OR (PDX)  There are many feeder flights on Dash aircraft from cities in the NW.  I think SLC is similar.

SLC has a ton of flights on CRJ-200’s, which is a 50 seat all economy plane (and at present, the smallest thing that says Delta on the side of it). MSP has a good few as well.

thelakelander

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #273 on: April 06, 2020, 12:06:22 PM »
Behind a paywall but JIA's Terminal B expansion has been put back on the shelf....

TAILSPIN: A drop in flights means a turbulent future for Jacksonville International Airport

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/04/03/jacksonville-international-airport-shelves-major.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline
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Charles Hunter

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #274 on: April 06, 2020, 12:21:11 PM »
Some highlights, that I don't think violate 'fair use' - due to coronavirus connecting, might be part of JBJ's free conornavirus coverage.
Quote
Almost all concessions have shut down, and hundreds of employees who relied on bustling terminals have been laid off. All capital expenditures have been cut — including plans for the long-awaited Concourse B. On a typical Monday, VanLoh said earlier this week, 12,000 or more passengers would have walked through the terminal at Jacksonville International Airport.

This past Monday, there was maybe 1,000.

Since March 20, more than 750 flights have been cancelled, including 101 flights scheduled for March 27.

...

The biggest hit: Construction of the highly-anticipated Concourse B is off the books. All planning work has been stopped, and construction will not begin this year.

“When we will we need those extra gates, it’ll be years from now,” VanLoh said. “We’ll just put everything on hold and pull it off the shelf when it’s time to start expanding again.”

That time, though, is probably off in the distant future, however.

JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #275 on: April 06, 2020, 12:37:11 PM »
Disappointing!

jaxlongtimer

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #276 on: April 09, 2020, 10:35:48 PM »
I wonder if plane configurations change after this.  Maybe fewer and larger seats on planes - greater separation between them.  If it takes years for traffic to return, it won't hurt airlines too much to reduce seats on existing planes.  However, ticket prices may go up to cover the lower revenue yield.

If this type of seating becomes a permanent standard, planes may get larger to handle today's same number of passengers but with more expansive seating.  Then, airports may need fewer gates but must be redesigned to handle larger planes.

Of course, airlines could try putting up between seats those clear sneeze shields retailers are installing at cashiers.  Good luck with that  8)!

Will be interesting to see how this works out.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #277 on: April 10, 2020, 09:20:32 AM »
I wonder if plane configurations change after this.  Maybe fewer and larger seats on planes - greater separation between them.  If it takes years for traffic to return, it won't hurt airlines too much to reduce seats on existing planes.  However, ticket prices may go up to cover the lower revenue yield.

If this type of seating becomes a permanent standard, planes may get larger to handle today's same number of passengers but with more expansive seating.  Then, airports may need fewer gates but must be redesigned to handle larger planes.

Of course, airlines could try putting up between seats those clear sneeze shields retailers are installing at cashiers.  Good luck with that  8)!

Will be interesting to see how this works out.

That would be a SIGNIFICANT change. If they did that, then fares would have to rise dramatically. Take a 737-900 (not the MAX). The thing holds about 180 people currently. The only way to reduce and create meaningful separation between people would be to take the existing seating config of 3-3 and make it 2-2 (basically the First Class config). You couldn't do 3-2 as I'd assume it would significantly throw the weight/balance off. Yes, there are planes today that have 3-2 seating, but they also are designed that way and balance the plane out in the cargo hold (and the cargo holds are designed to compensate)

That would be a loss of about 60 seats. Unless you're going to sell the plane with all First Class seats, then you'll never make money. As an example, the reason production is ending on the giant A380 is because the only way the plane is profitable is if nearly every seat is full, which really doesn't match with how airlines schedule flights. The whole program would have been a HUGE disaster for Airbus had Emirates not purchased almost 1/2 of the planes made.

My feeling is the big airlines are going to feel the hurt for longer than the smaller, leisure airlines. They already had rock bottom fares as they catered to leisure travelers, and those people will continue to travel. The big boys (Delta, United, American) cater to both leisure and business travelers, but it's the business traveler that makes the economics work for them. I think almost every business is going to at least question whether or not the existing travel budgets were worth it. Some will decide they are, some will try to pinch, and some will cut dramatically.

I think they will all figure out a way to be profitable again, bit it may be a WHILE.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #278 on: April 10, 2020, 11:29:36 AM »
That would be a SIGNIFICANT change. If they did that, then fares would have to rise dramatically...

...My feeling is the big airlines are going to feel the hurt for longer than the smaller, leisure airlines. They already had rock bottom fares as they catered to leisure travelers, and those people will continue to travel. The big boys (Delta, United, American) cater to both leisure and business travelers, but it's the business traveler that makes the economics work for them. I think almost every business is going to at least question whether or not the existing travel budgets were worth it. Some will decide they are, some will try to pinch, and some will cut dramatically.

I think they will all figure out a way to be profitable again, bit it may be a WHILE.

Maybe flying goes back to the model, before deregulation, of the 1950's and 1960's where it is really a business, necessity and "luxury" audience mostly.  Those are the ones that would pay higher fares to travel supporting less dense seating.  Leisure travelers, domestically, will end up driving more and traveling longer distances less.  International travel will, once again, be a special event/luxury purchase and be greatly diminished.  The world will become the "bigger" place of old rather than the small one it has been in modern times.

The ultimate solution will be a cure/vaccine for COVID-19.  Then, this whole thing may become a memory to most like the Spanish Flu of 1918 and we return to our old habits.

thelakelander

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #279 on: April 10, 2020, 11:38:08 AM »
Maybe flying goes back to the model, before deregulation, of the 1950's and 1960's where it is really a business, necessity and "luxury" audience mostly.  Those are the ones that would pay higher fares to travel supporting less dense seating.  Leisure travelers, domestically, will end up driving more and traveling longer distances less.  International travel will, once again, be a special event/luxury purchase and be greatly diminished.  The world will become the "bigger" place of old rather than the small one it has been in modern times.

If this happens, we'll be in a deep recession for for years to come. So many places across the globe have prospered from increased connectivity. Especially Florida's tourism industry.
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Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #280 on: April 10, 2020, 12:23:29 PM »
Maybe flying goes back to the model, before deregulation, of the 1950's and 1960's where it is really a business, necessity and "luxury" audience mostly.  Those are the ones that would pay higher fares to travel supporting less dense seating.  Leisure travelers, domestically, will end up driving more and traveling longer distances less.  International travel will, once again, be a special event/luxury purchase and be greatly diminished.  The world will become the "bigger" place of old rather than the small one it has been in modern times.

If this happens, we'll be in a deep recession for for years to come. So many places across the globe have prospered from increased connectivity. Especially Florida's tourism industry.

Correct. Aside from the point-to-point leisure airlines that cater almost exclusively to non-business travelers, business travel is what drives the industry. As part of this, companies will already be looking at the travel budgets and cutting. If the airlines respond with higher fares, then they will largely go away. Businesses already pay higher fares than leisure travelers, mostly because trying to plan a business trip 6 months in advance is just not possible. But in the age of videoconferencing and technology, there is a limit to what they will pay.

Look, this sucks, but are we really saying in a year or two we will still be mandating (both governments and us in our personal lives) 6' distancing? Heck no. I mean, are we going to cover every other seat in an arena or a stadium? Unlikely.

Plus, I mean let's say in the next year we have a vaccine for this. Are we going to guarantee that another coronavirus won't come out?

jaxlongtimer

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #281 on: April 10, 2020, 12:44:00 PM »
^ From what I am reading, airlines are preparing to dramatically cut the size of their fleets and corresponding capacity.  On this basis, any remaining higher paying customers, even in fewer numbers, will manage to fill the remaining capacity at high enough percentages to be profitable for the airlines.  The airline industry will just be much smaller than before.  Seems that is what JIA is anticipating by cancelling Concourse B. 

If fleets are substantially reduced by retiring older planes and cancelling orders for new ones and a virus cure then arrives, it may take years to rebuild the pre-virus business model back even if there is demand for it.

Steve

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #282 on: April 10, 2020, 02:29:47 PM »
That I agree with. But, the plane is still the plane. The economics of the plane are designed around it's seating capacity. You dump 1/3 of the seats to spread people out and the plane itself won't fly.


JaxAvondale

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Re: JAX/JIA updates
« Reply #284 on: April 16, 2020, 07:45:23 AM »
Hopefully, the bailout from the airlines will open up some more routes as we move into a new normal.