Author Topic: What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander  (Read 5184 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander
« on: June 06, 2007, 12:00:00 AM »
What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander



Disclaimer:  We regret that some of our viewers are having trouble distinguishing a purely informational article from a factual-based opinion.  For those viewers, we'd like to take the opportunity to make it clear that this particular article is of the  Opinion  variety.   Now let us begin...With all the recent rhetoric from the mayor's office about how much the quality of life will be diminished if the state legislators cut our property taxes, the mayor has yet to cut the job of anyone significant from his own staff.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/467

vicupstate

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More facts and less opinion please
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 08:37:04 AM »
What was the previous PD making?  What does the PD in similiar size cities make?
 
Present the facts and let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.  
 
These articles would have more impact if they stuck to the facts and left out the 'liar' , 'anointment' type comments.   Editorial commentry should be under the Opinion section.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

thelakelander

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Thoburn off to a good start?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 09:01:06 AM »
I agree.  They should also have the author's name attached to them.  Any why what's everyone's opinion of Thoburn's desire to revise our zoning ordinance to enforce higher design standards for suburban strip malls?

Brad Thoburn Reinvents
Quote
"We have to think of these corridors, and many times they really are, the front door of our neighborhoods," Planning Director Brad Thoburn said.

Thoburn is hoping to shift from the strip mall concept to designs similar to the St. Johns Town Center, where buildings are clustered, parking isn't a focal point and walking from store to store is encouraged.


http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=5.0

Looks like a positive move to me.  Hopefully, more are on the way.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jason

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Brad Thoburn
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 09:06:48 AM »
He has apparently been lurking around MetJax.com and has picked up some good ideas....

Pavers

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Two cents
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 12:24:08 PM »
I like you guys.  Your combination of passion and "boots on the street" information of the issues pertaining to downtown is very valuable.

But using the words "spokesliar" is unproductive and frankly, juvenile.  Seems like one member of your consortium (I am guessing the one I haven't met yet) needs to tone it down.  

Two steps forward with insights and information, one step back with name-calling.  

RG

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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 02:21:34 PM »
I agree.  This was poorly written.  Are there no editors to go over these screeds before they are posted?  Also, the whole make fun of the South and the alleged "Good Old Boy network" gets a bit tiresome.  First of all, instead of all of Jacksonville's perceived failings being caused by a secret cabal, perhaps the majority of people in town just dont agree with you.  Instead of insulting them and turning them off entirely, I find it more productive to work within their framework and show them a better way.

Suzanne Jenkins

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I am in agreement with RG
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 05:08:39 PM »
I am glad to see these kinds of comments regarding this article and the ones before it by JaxInvestor.  I have expressed my concerns before regarding some of his posts.

I truly believe that the following needs to happen if this site is going to grow into a viable alternative of information -

-all items should be submitted to editor(s) and reviewed for content prior to posting.  Most "papers" have editors that review the story content and then assign a headline to the article.  

- if the article is an "opinion article" it should be duly noted and titled OPINION from the time it is posted.  It should also be signed by the opinion writer and there should be a disclaimer that says "the opinions stated here do not necessarily reflect those of the paper.  

-  there should be an opinion column section on the site where we can click and read the opinion so as not to be confused that it is an article based on facts, instead of someone's own opinion.

The Internet Police

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People...
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2007, 05:13:42 PM »
Do you really have that much problem distinguishing fact from opinion?  It is CLEARLY listed under the "Editorial" section.  Additionally, the opinion, in fact - like all good opinions, IS BASED ON FACT.  I think there needs to be an education among some of the readers that opinion can be based on fact.  I do agree that, ALL WORK - whether purely informational (which we certainly also hope is based in fact) or opinion (which should also be based on facts).  Btw...to assume that an opinion piece 100% belongs to one author is a little foolish and a bit of "following the herd" mentality.  Not all those who wander are lost.

Driven1

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Suzanne
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2007, 05:35:22 PM »
What factual "inaccuracies" did you find in the article?  

Btw...Pavers...the "spokesliar" comment was actually ADDED by our Editor!!!  SURPRISE!!  And I bet you HAVE met him.   I personally thought it was strong and changed it BACK to "spokesperson".  

RG--You are wrong...it was quite eloquently written.  I think you may have just read it poorly.  Maybe YOU are right...maybe there is no GOBN actually...maybe Thoburn actually WAS qualified (and not just "uniquely") for the position of Planning Director.    In any case, that was not the point of the article.  

Your comments and feedback are much appreciated.  

RG

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2007, 05:43:34 PM »
There is a GOBN in the sense that politically connected people can get more things done than those who are not connected, but this is not unique to Jacksonville.  It is pretty much the case everywhere humans congregate.  So, to pretend that this is a unique Jacksonville phenomenon is a bit silly.  I am not saying that Thoburn was qualified or that there is no room for improvement either (although I agree that he is showing signs of improvement).  I just think this is the wrong approach.  Y'all are free to do whatever you want, but if want to be effective, this isnt the way to do it IMO.

Driven1

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I think historically speaking, that is not accurate.  Actually, unfortunately, it is only the times where we question and investigate that any effective changes are made.

It is a noble thought that the "provide good ideas and they'll listen" method works, but again, history proves otherwise.  And I'd just like to say again that that is unfortunate...but that is the way it is.

Pavers

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My apologies for the insinuation, re: "spokesliar"
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2007, 06:57:18 PM »
Regardless of who wrote it, inserted it, or what have you, it's unproductive - I would think/hope most would concur.

A suggestion:  how about simply labeling this article "Opinion:  What's Good for the Goose..."

It seems that the disconnect, from my vantage point, is that most folks are readers of this site for the information and unique perspective - whether it's the photo shoots, "learning froms" or the analysis of the BRT.  

One gets used to a steady daily stream of interesting information and insight - and then boom, a stick of opinionated dynamite gets tossed into the pond.  As noted, if you're going to toss the dynamite, it ought to have a return address (signature).  

Maybe it's just me, but such verbage just doesn't fit with the overall tone and demeanor of the rest of the content on this site.  I'm trying to think of an analogy - here's one.  It's like listening to a classical music station that gets suddenly interrupted by a heavy metal song.  What's that doing on my channel?  

As noted above by Kevin (who I look forward to meeting, by the way), questioning and investigating sheds light, which is a great thing.  The BRT articles are well-done and moves the needle on public opinion.  Which is a good for the site.  Good for the city.  Heck, good for democracy.    More of that, please!

Best wishes to all,
Pavers

Anomaly

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I get it.
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2007, 08:52:01 PM »
With all due respect to a few of my fellow readers, I also can't understand why some people are all bent out of shape about this.  It seems it is the same crowd (4 or 5 people) that can't seem to differentiate opinion from information articles.  By the way, I agree with Kevin that the powers that be seem to largely ignore 99% of the very good information that these guys/girls produce.  

I think our Mayor should look at reducing his staff's salaries and even HIS OWN!  That is what leaders do.  They lead by example.  

Was this article dynamite?  Yes.  Is it necessary?  Certainly.  

RP

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JCCI
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2007, 10:35:54 PM »
How many times this week has everyone checked out JCCI's website? Good stuff there: http://jcci.org/

RP

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JCCI part 2
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2007, 10:43:30 PM »
This is interesting. If you check JCCI's web stats, metrojacksonville.com is ahead in popularity by almost 4 MILLION websites.

So much for good ideas and good behavior...