Author Topic: Learning from Hoboken, NJ  (Read 2550 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« on: August 13, 2008, 05:00:00 AM »
Learning from Hoboken, NJ



With the fourth highest population density in the nation, The Mile Square City offers an interesting look at making the most out of a limited land situation.

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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/862

Abhishek

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 08:27:22 AM »
But they dont have any where to spread to. Jersey City and Hoboken are locked in a small space. They dont have the adjoining Clay and St. Johns county to grow into. Jacksonville does. So, why spend more money and build taller buildings and closer knit areas when every family can have their own front and back yard. I have seen want of privacy and the dream to have your own house+yard propell people towards suburbia than urban environments. I am all up for living in denser areas but what can the city do to get a family out from their single family home on 210/Intl. Golf Parkway with better schools and country-side-simulated-living to a denser urban housing? Yes, one day the suburbia will be short on land and gas prices will make it harder for people to commute that far, but by then the environmental and infrastructural damage will have been done. We need to act now to promote denser urban districts.
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thelakelander

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 09:34:32 AM »
But they dont have any where to spread to. Jersey City and Hoboken are locked in a small space. They dont have the adjoining Clay and St. Johns county to grow into. Jacksonville does. So, why spend more money and build taller buildings and closer knit areas when every family can have their own front and back yard.

They don't have Clay and St. Johns County but they do have the entire state of New Jersey to sprawl across, which the metro does.  Anyway, that's pretty irrelevent.  The point of the story is to show an example of a high density neighborhood that's pedestrian friendly, but still maintains its neighborhood feel.  Also, I'm one of those that don't desire a large front and backyard.   I had one in Central Florida and hated having to maintain it (or pay for someone to maintain it).  While I may be an exception to the rule, I'm sure there are more out there like me.  This is why its good to have alternatives.

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I have seen want of privacy and the dream to have your own house+yard propell people towards suburbia than urban environments. I am all up for living in denser areas but what can the city do to get a family out from their single family home on 210/Intl. Golf Parkway with better schools and country-side-simulated-living to a denser urban housing? Yes, one day the suburbia will be short on land and gas prices will make it harder for people to commute that far, but by then the environmental and infrastructural damage will have been done. We need to act now to promote denser urban districts.

I think the city would do well aggressively promoting its physical and natural assets, along with its history.  Its not going to appeal to every one, but neither will living in the burbs. Nevertheless, we'll be a better community if we can have both a vibrant core and suburbs.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

uptowngirl

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 11:01:07 AM »
So, why spend more money and build taller buildings and closer knit areas when every family can have their own front and back yard. I have seen want of privacy and the dream to have your own house+yard propell people towards suburbia than urban environments.

I think it is incorrect belief that to live in the urban core you can not have a single family house or a yard. I live in the urban core and I have a big single family house with a large front and back yard. I have plenty of privacy too, with beautiful gardens in front and back. In fact most people are shocked when they come for a visit, you can see the skyline of downtown AND hear birds, crickets, and frogs while sitting in my back or front yard.

rjp2008

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 12:16:17 PM »
You guys pick some funny learning-from's. ;)

(I'm from New Jersey orig btw)

Something more down the shore (a term we use for the area of Jersey closest to the beaches) would be much more comparable to Jax's near term future.



apvbguy

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2008, 12:01:13 PM »

The idea of using Hoboken as a template for JAX's resurgence is well meaning but misguided.
Hoboken is a great success story, a bit over 10 years ago it was a decaying port/industrial town, the port moved 30 years ago and the major employers left in the ensuing years despite that the town has made a complete turn around. Unfortunately for the urban JAX promoters none of the dynamics present in Hoboken are present in JAX, the largest thing in the mix is Hoboken's proximity to the largest city with the largest economy in the US.
Young professionals priced out of Manhattan have moved to Hoboken in droves, this sparked the real estate redevelopment boom and consequent boom of businesses that cater to the new residents. I am not a JAX basher but trying to compare JAX to Hoboken is like comparing apples and oranges.
As many have noted the ample open space present in JAX allows the spreading out to the suburbs and most people will choose to have "elbow" room versus living in a densely packed urban core. Also the demographics of Hoboken is very different than what is found in JAX, the majority of the new residents of Hoboken are in their 20's or early 30's, single and make a good living while JAX's population is older more family orientated and makes a lower income. Hobokens cost of living is out of reach of most of JAX's young professionals, rents for the new/renovated apts are well over 2k a month for a small 2 bdrm apt.
The public transport in Hoboken is not geared to getting around locally, it is geared towards getting to NYC, and while the availability of public transport is ample it is just an accident of location.
Downtown JAX needs to get to a critical mass of employment, amenities and population before it can rebound but it is a chicken/egg situation that I nor few others have an answer for, As long as nicer outlying places continue to attract residents and business it will be a tough nut for JAX to crack
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Lunican

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2008, 12:21:50 PM »
Welcome apvbguy. These 'Learning from' articles are simply meant to show what is going on in places outside of Jacksonville. The cities featured are not necessarily similar to Jacksonville. Some are, but most are not.

thelakelander

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Re: Learning from Hoboken, NJ
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2008, 12:43:47 PM »
I am not a JAX basher but trying to compare JAX to Hoboken is like comparing apples and oranges.

Lunican's post hit the nail on the head for the purpose of the "Learning From Series".  Perhaps we should change the titles for future cities that we'll be showcasing over the next few weeks.

Nevertheless, while the history of these communities may be different, when it comes to urbanism, the individual elements are nearly always the same.  For example, whether its Hoboken, Savannah or Indianapolis, all vibrant urban districts have:

A. Sidewalks
B. Pedestrian Friendly wayfaring signage
C. Streets that accommodate bike riders
D. Highly illuminated streets at night
E. Buildings that front the sidewalks, instead of parking lots
F. Public spaces that are well integrated into their surroundings
G. A high mix of uses within a compact setting
H. Infill development that favors walkability over automobiles

These are the things that we can and should strive to improve locally regardless of City A vs. City B's history, economic setting or landscape.  When viewing the images of other metropolitan regions, these are the things we should focus on.  Here, we'll find both good and bad examples that we can either follow in a similar fashion or avoid.




« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 12:45:29 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali