Author Topic: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone  (Read 58832 times)

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #345 on: November 09, 2018, 08:47:41 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #346 on: November 09, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:59:01 AM by Steve »

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #347 on: November 09, 2018, 08:58:31 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2018, 10:29:51 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

I don't think that's accurate. The district council members are much less accountable because they only have to please their district; at-large council members have the entire county watching them. We'd still be stuck with Kim Daniels if she had been a district council member (I mean we are still stuck with her, in an even higher district seat that's gerrymandered so that she'll never lose.)
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #349 on: November 09, 2018, 10:33:32 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.

What most people are talking about when they talk about the City Manager style of government is 2, where the manager reports to the council. 1 - which is the system in Miami - is effectively the same as Jacksonville's CAO position under a different name. 3 is the worst of the lot - it's basically creating a redundant second mayor or mini-mayor and it's still subject to the political ties. You might as well just have one strong mayor.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2018, 10:55:54 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

I don't think that's accurate. The district council members are much less accountable because they only have to please their district; at-large council members have the entire county watching them. We'd still be stuck with Kim Daniels if she had been a district council member (I mean we are still stuck with her, in an even higher district seat that's gerrymandered so that she'll never lose.)

Not sure I agree. Here's my point: the average Jacksonville resident may or may not be able to name their council member. I can guarantee you they can't name all 5 at large ones. Truthfully, I don't always remember who they are depending on how much sleep I've gotten the night before (the life of twin babies!). If I, as someone more engaged than most, doesn't always remember who the at large members are, how could the average person know if they're doing a good job.

On the other hand, that's the point of a district council member - serve your constituents. You aren't elected to represent 900k residents, you're representing ~60k residents.

Kin Daniels is an exception because she's infamous. That's a different level of crazy there. I'm talking about the person who doesn't make a negative name for him or herself, but doesn't really do anything either.

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #351 on: November 09, 2018, 10:57:48 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.

What most people are talking about when they talk about the City Manager style of government is 2, where the manager reports to the council. 1 - which is the system in Miami - is effectively the same as Jacksonville's CAO position under a different name. 3 is the worst of the lot - it's basically creating a redundant second mayor or mini-mayor and it's still subject to the political ties. You might as well just have one strong mayor.

Agree completely. That's the point though.....in #2 sure it's a body of people that have to decide to hire a new City Manager versus 1 person, but it's still subject to political winds if all involved want it to be subject to political winds. I think it's great that Austin/Delaney/Curry have had a total of 2 CAOs.

Jax-Nole

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #352 on: December 18, 2018, 05:12:56 PM »
Just in case anyone was curious, if you go to the www.500eastbay.com website, they changed the website to say "Riverlife" at the top. At first it seems like it could be an interesting name for this project, but that is not the case at all.

They re-purposed the website in an attempt to win a failing city-owned retail and commercial project in Wausau, WI that had been stalled since spring because the developer had financial issues. The Wausau city council gave the previous developer a strict deadline to restart construction, and when they failed to restart, the city removed the developer, and opened it bidding to complete it. Several companies bid on it, including Ohde Construction. The city has had it narrowed down to Ohde and one other company since October, but hasn't made a decision yet as of December 10th.

As for the 500eastbay website, it was made on Wix, which is a free website builder. Their only cost was the domain name. You would think they would just build another free website and pay a few bucks for another domain name instead of using the website for a project they already have.

marcuscnelson

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #353 on: December 18, 2018, 09:29:42 PM »
Just in case anyone was curious, if you go to the www.500eastbay.com website, they changed the website to say "Riverlife" at the top. At first it seems like it could be an interesting name for this project, but that is not the case at all.

They re-purposed the website in an attempt to win a failing city-owned retail and commercial project in Wausau, WI that had been stalled since spring because the developer had financial issues. The Wausau city council gave the previous developer a strict deadline to restart construction, and when they failed to restart, the city removed the developer, and opened it bidding to complete it. Several companies bid on it, including Ohde Construction. The city has had it narrowed down to Ohde and one other company since October, but hasn't made a decision yet as of December 10th.

As for the 500eastbay website, it was made on Wix, which is a free website builder. Their only cost was the domain name. You would think they would just build another free website and pay a few bucks for another domain name instead of using the website for a project they already have.

What a scam.


Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #354 on: December 19, 2018, 09:25:47 AM »
I'm shocked given how well buttoned up this thing appeared to be from the start.

downtownbrown

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #355 on: December 19, 2018, 09:26:32 AM »
heard a rumor that Ohde is out.  Sued by the other parties.  And that finally the way is clear to take on actual investors.

thelakelander

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #356 on: December 19, 2018, 09:35:27 AM »
?? Investors? I thought a development team had already swooped in with the cash to turn this site into an urban Disneyland.

So what does this mean for the ferris wheel, lazy river and hotel project as a whole? Is this thing happening or not?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

downtownbrown

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #357 on: December 19, 2018, 09:52:25 AM »
Yeah. No.

The same rumor had the place become all condos.  So take it for what it's worth...

fieldafm

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #358 on: December 19, 2018, 12:39:52 PM »
In the roughly 25 minutes it took the DIA to approve a $56 million incentive package and 3-acre property gift (they are buying the land at a reduced cost) for a property that has sat vacant for over a decade (and with no credible interest from the outside world until just before this summer started) the following was identified:

-17-story building with 340 hotel rooms (192 guest rooms, 75 executive suites and 73 junior suites), garage with 631 parking spaces that would also provide access for the USS Adams museum (200 spots dedicated for short-term parking... via a parking grant paid for by the City) and a 'family entertainment center';
-thrill rides for teenagers, 200 foot tall ferris wheel and 36 6-passenger gondolas;
-Not a Margaritaville Hotel;
-KKR & Co as their equity partner;
-Mississippi-based Lori and Greg Stewart (who have built hotels, apartments and condos and also own a construction company for said projects... also to note, Greg Stewart is currently being sued for a failed condo project in Louisiana), Chicago-based Jim Bergman (primarily an affordable housing builder) and Virginia-based David Roos (primarily a finance guy) as principals for the development;
-General and non-specific allusions as to what their equity partner wants from a financing perspective

It should also be noted that when a board member hesitated, wanted more details and possible deferral to another meeting due to the sheer size of the incentive package (the developer even admitted that they've probably only penciled out less than 25% of the project scope and design)... he was railroaded with a sense of extreme urgency that this massive package needed to be approved now.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 07:54:33 AM by fieldafm »

vicupstate

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #359 on: December 19, 2018, 12:47:05 PM »
?? Investors? I thought a development team had already swooped in with the cash to turn this site into an urban Disneyland.

So what does this mean for the ferris wheel, lazy river and hotel project as a whole? Is this thing happening or not?


Quote
The same rumor had the place become all condos.  So take it for what it's worth...

It sounds like they are going to build a resort/tourist destination, with the existing building becoming a time share condo. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln