Author Topic: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone  (Read 48671 times)

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #345 on: November 09, 2018, 08:47:41 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #346 on: November 09, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:59:01 AM by Steve »

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #347 on: November 09, 2018, 08:58:31 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2018, 10:29:51 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

I don't think that's accurate. The district council members are much less accountable because they only have to please their district; at-large council members have the entire county watching them. We'd still be stuck with Kim Daniels if she had been a district council member (I mean we are still stuck with her, in an even higher district seat that's gerrymandered so that she'll never lose.)
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Tacachale

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #349 on: November 09, 2018, 10:33:32 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.

What most people are talking about when they talk about the City Manager style of government is 2, where the manager reports to the council. 1 - which is the system in Miami - is effectively the same as Jacksonville's CAO position under a different name. 3 is the worst of the lot - it's basically creating a redundant second mayor or mini-mayor and it's still subject to the political ties. You might as well just have one strong mayor.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2018, 10:55:54 AM »
Also, while our council may be too big, getting rid of the at-large seats would be a bad idea. Those are the council members who are responsible to the whole city. Several of the beat council members are at-large members, and they may not have been elected as district council members.

I hear your point on At Large, and yes some of the best have been At Large. So have some crappy ones (just like a district council member). My problem is that there's much less accountability. They can basically do nothing and because they don't have watchdogs in their district monitoring them as close, they will get re-elected so long as they play nice with the party.

I don't think that's accurate. The district council members are much less accountable because they only have to please their district; at-large council members have the entire county watching them. We'd still be stuck with Kim Daniels if she had been a district council member (I mean we are still stuck with her, in an even higher district seat that's gerrymandered so that she'll never lose.)

Not sure I agree. Here's my point: the average Jacksonville resident may or may not be able to name their council member. I can guarantee you they can't name all 5 at large ones. Truthfully, I don't always remember who they are depending on how much sleep I've gotten the night before (the life of twin babies!). If I, as someone more engaged than most, doesn't always remember who the at large members are, how could the average person know if they're doing a good job.

On the other hand, that's the point of a district council member - serve your constituents. You aren't elected to represent 900k residents, you're representing ~60k residents.

Kin Daniels is an exception because she's infamous. That's a different level of crazy there. I'm talking about the person who doesn't make a negative name for him or herself, but doesn't really do anything either.

Steve

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Re: New life for Berkman II? Owners seeking Commercial CBD Rezone
« Reply #351 on: November 09, 2018, 10:57:48 AM »
Not even close to the same thing.

How is it not? Every place I've seen a city manager, it's been one of a couple ways:

1. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the Mayor)
2. The City Manager reports to (and serves at the pleasure of the City Council/Commission)
3. The City Manager is actually elected by the citizens. At this point the City Manager is basically a Mayor or Deputy Mayor and is not in the spirit of  what you're talking about.

Either way their boss is either the citizens, or an elected body/official.

What most people are talking about when they talk about the City Manager style of government is 2, where the manager reports to the council. 1 - which is the system in Miami - is effectively the same as Jacksonville's CAO position under a different name. 3 is the worst of the lot - it's basically creating a redundant second mayor or mini-mayor and it's still subject to the political ties. You might as well just have one strong mayor.

Agree completely. That's the point though.....in #2 sure it's a body of people that have to decide to hire a new City Manager versus 1 person, but it's still subject to political winds if all involved want it to be subject to political winds. I think it's great that Austin/Delaney/Curry have had a total of 2 CAOs.