Author Topic: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville  (Read 39380 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« on: December 23, 2015, 03:00:04 AM »
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 06:20:21 AM by thelakelander »

spuwho

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »
So basically, having vacant land in and around JT is a benefit now.

It makes it way more easier to design and build to a complete plan, not having to piece meal parcels together.

thelakelander

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 08:29:56 AM »
This may be happening at the perfect time:

Quote
JTA and DIA partnering on new life for LaVilla

By Max Marbut, Staff Writer

Two of the city’s independent authorities are working together to establish a plan for Jacksonville’s oldest suburb — and they have quite a head start.
The Downtown Investment Authority and Jacksonville Transportation Authority are splitting the $20,000 cost of hiring a consultant to provide a master plan for LaVilla. The area is west of the urban core, north of the Prime Osborn Convention Center, east of Interstate 95 and south of Union Street.

Both organizations have plans in place for the neighborhood. The DIA has approved development agreements for two apartment buildings and JTA is planning a Regional Transportation Center.

What follows those projects will be the focus of the master plan for the acres of historic urban real estate that have been neglected for more than 20 years.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546715
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FlaBoy

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2015, 09:20:43 AM »
I really do hope to see this happen. However, with the amount of pain it has taken to go through the Treasure Coast without a stop, where would you envision stops on a leg to Jacksonville? Daytona and St. Augustine?

I think this would be the push for Jax to do something with a streetcar in the urban neighborhoods that connects one way or another with the Skyway to take people somewhere desirable when they arrive. It is a HUGE coup for Jacksonville though if you can hop on a train at MCO (the 12th busiest airport in the country with every international flight imaginable) and be in Jacksonville in an hour and a half.

thelakelander

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 09:39:42 AM »
^Daytona and perhaps St. Augustine. I can't imagine anything else. However, what it would do is possibly address much of the track capacity improvements needed for an Amtrak line between Jax and Miami. If that happens, stations in smaller east coast cities could be served by Amtrak.
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jaxjaguar

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2015, 09:43:15 AM »
I'm not really seeing the value of traveling from Orlando to Miami in 3 hours... I can do that now in my car for less money than they'll charge for a ticket and I won't have to rent a car / cab when I get there. I think high speed rail is a great idea, but it needs to be much faster.

FlaBoy

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 09:59:29 AM »
I'm not really seeing the value of traveling from Orlando to Miami in 3 hours... I can do that now in my car for less money than they'll charge for a ticket and I won't have to rent a car / cab when I get there. I think high speed rail is a great idea, but it needs to be much faster.

The price of a ticket will be a huge consideration with gas dropping so rapidly. You can do Miami to Orlando if there is NO traffic. But if you need to make a weekday trip, good luck missing traffic. I think this is also really focused on tourists as the lifeblood with long term goals of seeing some commuter activity. Orlando is the #1 most visited place in America and Miami is #5 according to Forbes. For International travelers, Orlando is #1 and Miami is #3 with NYC holding down the second spot.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/28/tourism-new-york-lifestyle-travel-las-vegas-cities_slide_11.html

If Jacksonville were to have a connection to those cities, it could mean a lot more visitors (which is also why I think St. A would get a stop).

Steve

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 10:01:15 AM »
^Agreed, especially with the rail line running so close to St. George Street and the other tourist areas. As long as there are decent connections from the stations, rail could be a game changer for tourism.

coredumped

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 10:29:59 AM »
Also consider taking a cruise out of Miami. Parking is around $20-$30 per day. Taking the train would save serious cash.
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FlaBoy

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2015, 10:32:41 AM »
Also consider taking a cruise out of Miami. Parking is around $20-$30 per day. Taking the train would save serious cash.

^Parking anywhere around Miami Beach or DT Miami is a pain and very very expensive as well.

Tacachale

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 10:43:54 AM »
For intercity rail to compete successfully with cars and airlines in a place like Florida, it needs to be faster than a car trip, cheaper than a plain ticket, and easier than both. I have no idea if the Brightline will successfully pull that off, but it seems their real money is going to come from elsewhere. In addition to getting more use out of FEC's already-existing tracks, the whole project opens up their ability to get into the real estate development game. That could be something of a double-edged sword for a lot of places, but it could be a very exciting opportunity for LaVilla.

Especially considering, as Lakelander points out, JTA is apparently still moving forward with the transit center at the Prime Osborn. The article mentions they're putting all the other pieces together besides the train station - the city bus hub, the Skyway, Greyhound and the JTA offices - and, beyond that, they're apparently finally coordinating with the Downtown Investment Authority. While train service is still a missing piece there, it's obviously a long term consideration or the rest of the plan wouldn't revolve around the old terminal.

The city (and the independent authorities) still have a lot of land in Lavilla, and so much of it is mostly or totally unused. That could make for a very attractive prospect for FEC...
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UNFurbanist

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 11:22:25 AM »
^agree with everything above. If I were to have a plan for the site and direction of DT overall I would suggest moving the convention center to the old courthouse and turn the terminal back to its original use. For the old convention center space, I'm sure offering that up to AAF to raze and develop into a mixed use tower would be an easy win. Often times with development like this comes development so if we have a solid plan and they officially announce expansion it can be a huge signal to developers that LaVilla will be a boom market. Especially after the success in Brooklyn.

FlaBoy

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 12:08:19 PM »
The northern portions of Brooklyn there would be closer to this stop than anywhere else if you linked it over the Creek. We need some buzz and momentum around here and this would provide that just as Miami, Orlando, and Tampa/St. Pete may hit prices in the real estate market that make developers look north to Jax.

Ocklawaha

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 10:59:28 PM »
While the plan involves passenger trains, it is:
NOT HIGH SPEED RAIL (the technology is called Higher Speed Rail or HrSR).
and
IT DOESNT DEPEND ON PASSENGERS FOR PROFIT (As Publix doesn't depend on shopping carts to make money)

AAF/Brightline/FEC RY/FECI/Flagler Development/Fortress are just the first private venture to work out a formula for profit based on the RAIL-TOD relationship that MJ has been shouting about from day one. Put in the rail link and... They will come! Develop villages of high rise towers around said rail link and watch that investment blow the old way of developing all to hell. TAMPA and PORTLAND both built rail, it doesn't even have to be highly successful from a passenger standpoint, made into cornerstones of good urban plans and the two cities have seen $3BN and $10BN in new TOD that is certifiably related to rail. AAF figures they can laugh all the way to the bank, meanwhile it opens a new terminal in JAX, provides much needed rail capacity, improves the freight flow, adds passenger trains, opens the door for Amtrak, and most importantly, if they should be highly successful, we might even kiss Amtrak goodbye as railroads across the country follow the lead of the FEC.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 11:01:52 PM by Ocklawaha »

NaldoAveKnight

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Re: High speed rail project has eye on Jacksonville
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2015, 11:01:08 PM »
The All Aboard Florida scam is a CSX boondoggle to pay for track improvements.  CSX has sucked in public transit enthusiasts to support this mess.  Can you imagine a train blasting through a small Florida town going 125 mph?  How many people will get killed when one of these 125 mph trains goes off the track or hits a car?  Train accidents are frequent, running trains over existing crossings at 125 mph will create a hazard unlike anything we have known. 

Prediction - After the first horrific crash and the lawyers completely take All Aboard Florida to the cleaners, the taxpayers will be on the hook for all of the track improvement bonds.  The only folks making money on this deal is CSX and the lawyers suing All Aboard Florida.  Losers?  The taxpayers.

There is existing Amtrak service to Miami, Orlando, Tampa, etc from Jacksonville but nobody uses it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 11:03:24 PM by NaldoAveKnight »