Author Topic: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th  (Read 4844 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:00:03 AM »
JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th



The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) is gearing up to launch the First Coast Flyer™ (Bus Rapid Transit) “Green Line” on Monday, December 7, 2015. The Green Line will operate between Rosa Parks Transit Station and Interstate 295 along Lem Turner with stops at major destinations to include FSCJ, VA Clinic, UF Health and Gateway Town Center. The Flyer will connect customers to jobs, education, healthcare and more with features as unique at the region it serves. A mobile ticketing application (mobile app) called MyJTA will also launch on December 7 with the new service.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-nov-jta-ready-to-launch-first-coast-flyer-december-7th

mbstout

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 09:42:29 AM »
If a tree falls in a forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Wow.  Depressing.
Not a single soul in any any of these pics.
Who do they expect to utilize this if no one's around to use it?

Also, I also see NO traffic for that matter, and a HUGE (probably underutilized) seven story parking garage lurking in the background.
The math just doesn't add up.

I-10east

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 09:46:54 AM »
^^^I'll atleast wait until the thing is open before being so critical.

CCMjax

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2015, 10:10:30 AM »
If a tree falls in a forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Wow.  Depressing.
Not a single soul in any any of these pics.
Who do they expect to utilize this if no one's around to use it?

Also, I also see NO traffic for that matter, and a HUGE (probably underutilized) seven story parking garage lurking in the background.
The math just doesn't add up.

It says it will open December 7th.  People don't wait for buses that aren't running yet.

The idea is to improve the infrastructure and streetscape in the area to encourage investment in the area, not just provide an improved route.  We shall see what happens.
"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying 'This is mine,' and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society." - Jean Jacques Rousseau

BenderRodriguez

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2015, 10:40:16 AM »
I'm still at a loss here. I really feel that this could've really been solved with a line with fewer stops and less fanfare and really used the 33mil to tackle an actual form of additional alternative transit.

...then again, as a northside resident, I'll save the true criticism until after December 7th. It currently takes me 44 stops (one hour) to get from my house to downtown with, both, the 1A and 2A routes. As a larger city, I feel that's completely unacceptable. The BRT cuts that to 18 stops. So we'll see.

ProjectMaximus

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2015, 10:46:57 AM »
If a tree falls in a forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Wow.  Depressing.
Not a single soul in any any of these pics.
Who do they expect to utilize this if no one's around to use it?

Also, I also see NO traffic for that matter, and a HUGE (probably underutilized) seven story parking garage lurking in the background.
The math just doesn't add up.

Well given the route described, the riders probably don't have a car to park in the HUGE garage.
Also, this route has historically had the highest ridership of any route in the system.
Despite my trepidation with the First Coast Flyer "BRT" I think you needn't worry about nobody using it.

I'm still at a loss here. I really feel that this could've really been solved with a line with fewer stops and less fanfare and really used the 33mil to tackle an actual form of additional alternative transit. 

smh...yep

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 11:22:20 AM »
Yes, running an existing bus with more frequency, making less stops on the same path could have been done for significantly less. Purchasing new buses can get pretty expensive. I suspect most of that 33 million was used on the frills of new bus vehicles and bus stop amenities. With that said, it should do okay. Much of the ridership will come from existing bus routes operating along the same corridors. While I would not refer to it as rapid transit, it the same vein as LRT or Cleveland's Health Line-like BRT, a branded city bus coming every 10-15 minutes will be an improvement over what runs today.
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tufsu1

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2015, 03:56:26 PM »
^ and since the route met the Federal definition of BRT, they could access New Starts funding....something that would not have been possible had JTA just reconfigured a route or added a new one.

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2015, 04:13:09 PM »
Quote
“The First Coast Flyer™ will have a direct and positive impact on the quality of life for our customers,” said JTA Chief Executive Officer Nathaniel P. Ford Sr. “Our community deserves a world class transportation system.
Agree, but this isn't it! Since when is a frequent city bus with a few perks tossed in suddenly a 'world class' transportation system? My biggest gripe about this whole system is the language JTA officers continue to use to promote a very basic improvement, not even entry-level BRT lite by 'world standards,'(FTA standards are compromised to allow new starts)  as a magic bullet for 'rapid transit', TOD, economic growth etc. The fact is it is an improvement, it is not by any stretch even '3Rd World Class.' SEE WORLD STANDARDS: https://www.itdp.org/library/standards-and-guides/the-bus-rapid-transit-standard/the-scorecard/

Quote
The Flyer is the latest initiative in the process of transforming transportation in Northeast Florida.
Just as putting  new hubcaps on your car might make you feel better, in reality it does little to change the over-all value of the system until much larger investments are made in real BRT or RAIL.

Quote
The First Coast Flyer is planned in five-phases and serves as the backbone to the regional transit system. When completed in 2019, the Flyer system will cover 57 miles of destination travel, and will be the largest bus rapid transit system of its kind in the Southeast.

In other words, a more frequent city bus with perks world class systems are putting on their most basic routes is supposed to equate to a backbone or 'mainline' of rapid transit, even though as we've seen it is NOT RAPID TRANSIT. They are actually planning all other services to feed into this magic bus system which is lacking enough investment to perform like a magic bus system. Any future Skyway expansion, streetcar, light-rail, even commuter rail is now seen (by JTA's own words) as secondary services.

Please stop promising 'world class' changes with a system that doesn't equal 'world class.' Pump up the investment and place a true gold-level BRT down the Arlington Expressway to Regency or San Pablo, upgrade the BRT up Lem Turner and down Blanding to gold-level and compliment this with elevated and surface 'Rapid Streetcar,' and Commuter Rail, all fed by local city buses and give me a call. As for our new hubcaps, yes they're pretty.

RattlerGator

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2015, 05:03:14 PM »
The problem, Ocklawaha, is the math more than likely simply doesn't work (currently) and our population will likely have to be prove its acceptance of that type of future transportation investment through the utilization of *this* BRT system. Miami is going the BRT route as well:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/traffic/article31544828.html

All things considered, this First Coast Flyer looks like a good start.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2015, 08:17:49 PM »
Miami is going several routes....which is how things should be done. However, the spine of Miami's transit network is Metrorail.  Also, you can't use BRT to "prove" anything about another type of technology and service provided. Treat the First Coast Flyer for what it is and nothing more. Better bus service than what's being offered in Jax today.
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fsujax

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 05:03:37 PM »
Well, the streetscape improvements on Jefferson and Broad are nice.

SarcasticSam

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 01:09:06 PM »
This sort of miniquasi-BRT *can* work. We know this because it has worked in cities like Boston and NY.

In NY, the first bus route transitioned to BRT-style operations showed a 19% decrease in travel time and a 7% increase in ridership after 1 year of operations. http://web.mta.info/mta/planning/sbs/docs/Bx12-SBS-OneYearReport.pdf

Introduction of a BRT-lite system in Boston, the MBTA Silver Line, led to a 24% increase in overall public transit ridership to the airport. http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/FINALBOSTONBRTREPORT062507.pdf

What isn't clear to my from the JTA literature is whether fare collection is done at the station using ticket machines or on board. The JTA website merely mentions that you can buy reloadable cards downtown. Having fare collection off-bus would significantly decrease dwell times and overall trip times.

Ocklawaha

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 10:02:12 PM »
Nobody is saying that BRT can't work, or quasi-BRT-Lite can't work. What MJ has been saying is JTA continues to promote the Quasi-BRT as a system that is going to transform mass transit in Jacksonville, result in an economic payback with massive new TOD, and introduce true 'rapid transit' in Jacksonville, NONE OF WHICH IS TRUE.

BRT-LITE will not transform mass transportation in Jacksonville but it should be a marked improvement in local bus service.

BRT-LITE will not result in any significant TOD or economic payback.

BRT-LITE is not 'rapid transit' it is merely a better bus.

Saying JTA will be successful on par with the Silver Line in Boston, the Orange Line in LA, or the Health Line in Cleveland is a real stretch. Without the investment in international Silver or Gold Level BRT you are not going to get international Silver or Gold Level benefits. And if you invest as much as the international Silver or Gold Level BRT systems, over the life of the project you'd be far better off building a rapid streetcar system and paying it forward then to lock into a bus system that will eventually far exceed the cost of rail.

The moral is you build BRT, even BRT-LITE on routes such as the Blanding and Lem Turner line JTA has selected. You also choose routes such as down the centerline of the Arlington Expressway or Butler where 5 miles or more of exclusive Gold Level BRT could be built without much obstruction and thus for lower costs. These are routes where rail would be more difficult to implement. You build rapid-streetcar (that is a streetcar that stays on exclusive right-of-way, Skyway, track, or lanes) in area's where it would be the easiest to accomplish such as on the Skyway infrastructure, north through the Springfield Parks to UF Health, along the old F&J and 'S' Lines and parallel to the FEC and CSX in some locations.

My message to JTA has never changed. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:03:57 PM by Ocklawaha »

thelakelander

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Re: JTA Ready to Launch First Coast Flyer December 7th
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 10:17:39 PM »
Introduction of a BRT-lite system in Boston, the MBTA Silver Line, led to a 24% increase in overall public transit ridership to the airport. http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/FINALBOSTONBRTREPORT062507.pdf



The MBTA Silver Line isn't BRT-lite. It's a $625 million project that includes tunnels for its buses. It also complements Boston's rapid transit system.  It's a very different animal than what's coming to Jax. Nevertheless, Ocklawaha is right. It may not spur economic development along its route but the JTA Flyer will be an improvement over Jax's existing local bus service.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali