Author Topic: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?  (Read 5513 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« on: September 30, 2015, 06:15:01 AM »

metrojaxmarkb

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 02:40:47 PM »
Great intro profile of the Miami River.  The Miami River Marine Group(MRMG) has a long history (over 25 years) of supporting the historical "working waterfront" of the Miami River. 

Check out the MRMG website:  miamirivermarinegroup.org -- for more photos "Riverscapes 1" and Riverscapes 2". 

Ocklawaha

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 04:22:43 PM »
This article and trips to various south and central Florida cities is graphic evidence that the old Jacksonville-Miami-Tampa---and then---Orlando race to the sky, a race that lasted roughly from 1915-1970, is finally over. Miami's tall and super tall skyscrapers dwarf every other location south of Atlanta. The recent changes in Orlando and Tampa also speak to the fact that their trains are leaving the station too. Only Jacksonville seems stalled, unable to grasp identity, mass transit or urbanism 101.

thelakelander

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 05:10:11 PM »
^That race ended decades ago! Here's a few pics of DT Miami I took back in late 2013. There's quite a few more buildings in that skyline now.









Orlando's skyline has grown quite a bit over the last decade. I'd place Jax, Tampa, Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale's skylines in the same league these days. Miami's has passed Atlanta's and is now one of the country's largest.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Noone

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 11:02:11 PM »
Very nice. Was on the Southbank Riverwalk this evening as the Coast Guard was inspecting the Lady St. Johns. Stay positive.

Know Growth

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 11:06:50 PM »
I grew up on the Miami River.

To really know the Miami River,and Broward County's New River,is to know nothing similar ever existed in Northeast Florida.
(Lucky Us?  8) )

No such waterway vast meander,mouth handy near ocean/bay,targeted for pioneer development, exists here in Duval.

There are few bonafide 'lessons' to reveal,other than the subject of retaining water dependent marine facility,guarding such against development; land use and zone changes for which there are no viable alternative locations to replace lost water dependent service facilty,as per Ortega River Grahams Boat Yard/Ortega Landing episode.

On the other hand,the Miami River can not provide boating destination facility on the order of the Ortega River Ortega Landing facility.

Lambs Yacht Center covered storage facility is remarkably on the order of the Richard Bertram/Bertram Yachts Miami River dock facility.
Richard Bertram Yachts was once an iconic boat builder. The former Bertram Yachts factory location,adjacent to the Miami River and docks, is now long gone. Non marine use.

There is an Elementary school across the street from Lambs here in Jacksonville. Still.

It was wonderful to witness the improvement of Miami River water quality, and Biscayne Bay.

.....and the time during the 90's,back there on business, first time in years aboard a boat at night on the Miami River,the "pirate" era, new Ruger .357 handy,per common insruction.

The mouth of the Miami River is no longer recognizable from the images,family photos and movies of my youth.

No doubt there are Jacksonville "Growth" proponents who would wish to see a radical transformation of Jacksonville waterways.
For some reason,we here have lagged behind the Miami River. Somewhat.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 11:40:54 PM by Know Growth »

I-10east

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 08:24:10 AM »
I'm sorry but environmental-wise, I cannot compare these two rivers (SJR and the Miami). Seriously, we are talking about a 5 mile long river compared to a river that flows through multiple counties in Florida (longest in the state). All of the pollution from the St Johns isn't in Jax's control, so any direct comparison with the Miami regarding pollution would be NA for more reasons than one. Duval County could hypothetically be squared away totally with the SJR, but we'll still have issues far south of us.

thelakelander

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 08:54:46 AM »
^To be honest, I was thinking about other Jax waterways while touring the Miami River. Specifically, the Ortega, Trout, Arlington and Cedar Rivers and McCoys, Hogan and Deer Creeks.  There are a ton of applicable lessons in terms of enhancing/increasing public access, environmental cleanup and balancing longtime maritime uses with new development. In terms of our shipping terminals, the symbolic thing that stood out to me was the Miami River being an example of a shallow draft port that has found a long term viable and sustainable niche. In the event we fail in this Post Panamax race, it suggests that life doesn't have to be over. There could be other economically viable niches out there for us to take advantage of.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

I-10east

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 09:09:12 AM »
^^^I hear ya. Many times I hear people using these talking point type phrases like 'open the river' or 'adding more access' with the St Johns. Downtown seem to have plenty of docking/marina space for now. There doesn't seem to be a ton of demand for that right now;  I often see many unused cleats along the river. Jacksonville has tons of fishing spots throughout this city, so what specifically are people referring to that is so lacking with the river maritime-wise?

thelakelander

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 09:14:40 AM »

Hogans Creek in better days

One thing would be direct recreational access from adjacent downtown neighborhoods not located on the river. Take McCoys and Hogans Creek for example. Both were once greenways from downtown and into the respective neighborhoods surrounding them. Unfortunately, over the decades, we haven't maintained those amenities. With that in mind, just restoring some things we already have will go a long way to enhancing the quality of life of not just downtown, but neighborhoods like Lackawanna, Mixon Town, Brooklyn, LaVilla, Springfield, Sugar Hill, etc.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Know Growth

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2015, 11:14:51 PM »
I see no reason for  Miami River, New River compare/contrast .

Waterway issues, pressures are predictable, pretty much the same scenarios throughout the world.To really know the New River and the Miama' River is to really know how far removed Northeast Florida waterways are,well, so far removed.

Let's just focus on the creek systems we have here that are non existent in Dade and Broward county,and also so very screwed up.
Dade and Broward county offers nothing in the special "can do" department, and if they did, the empowerment would be subjugated.

To refer to historical McCoys and Hogans neighborhood connections, we would likewise need to refer to a Miami River area,community of an earlier time....who recalls the natural Miami River 'rapids'?

Endless,essetially useless "Loop" to prance around these supposed comparisons.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:30:38 PM by Know Growth »

thelakelander

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2015, 11:27:04 PM »
^Tell that to JaxPort and the Mayor's Office, after seeing PortMiami successfully complete their tunnel, intermodal rail yard and dredging to set them apart from JaxPort and the rest in Florida.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Know Growth

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2015, 11:33:48 PM »
^Tell that to JaxPort and the Mayor's Office, after seeing PortMiami successfully complete their tunnel, intermodal rail yard and dredging to set them apart from JaxPort and the rest in Florida.

Can we then look forward to much needed development of Cedar,Arlington,Ortega- the waterways you were thinking about while 'touring' the Miami River??

There can be no viable comparison of the Miami River (or the New River) with Jacksonville waterways.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:39:30 PM by Know Growth »

thelakelander

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2015, 12:01:59 AM »
Sure. I think it would be nice to revitalize the mid-20th century neighborhoods around these waterways while also preserving some of the historic working waterfront elements of them. Some of the efforts being taken with the Miami River are applicable to these specific waterways from that particular perspective. Another applicable positive would be the integration of public access and greenways parallel to certain waterways like Hogans and McCoys Creek. Again, the Miami Riverwalk plan is something to look at in consideration of such an idea. There are viable links. You just have to be willing to be open minded to consider them.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Know Growth

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Re: The Miami River: A Lesson for Jax's Waterways?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2015, 12:35:35 AM »
10/4 Lake.

It was Grand to have grown up in Miam,experience the Miami River setting first hand.And then return.

And also interesting to have been attracted to Jacksonville area waterways as a preferred better alternative,only to have been delivered to the same declining environment.

At least my own Fishweir Creek property represents a certain 'Ideal'.

I still maintain that references to Miami River,and Broward county New River are simply side-tracks.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 12:38:49 AM by Know Growth »