Author Topic: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville  (Read 8213 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« on: June 19, 2015, 03:00:01 AM »
History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville



History Of Tha Streetz Jacksonville - Duval County. A short documentary of Jacksonville hoods by TheRealStreetz.com

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jun-history-of-tha-streetz-another-side-of-jacksonville

I-10east

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2015, 10:13:36 AM »
Very interesting, thanks for the upload. I talked about this before and I really really hate beating a dead horse; I think that the 'highway cutting off a street causing mass chaos' is a canard and a convenient excuse to blame someone. Example: Look at Myrtle Ave, Moncrief, 45th St etc etc etc, long stretches of uninterrupted streets with no 'highway cut offs'; Last time I checked, they are in ghetto areas.

In some cases, these dead ends are actually little enclaves of decency. Hardee St off of Kings Rd were my sister's ex mother lives is a dead end cut off by a large train yard. There is no crime in that immediate area, but they may be someone shooting three blocks down. Same thing with my friends grandmother (who since passed on) who used to live on McDaniel Dr (dead end) off of Cleveland Rd. Some of these dead end areas are actually inhabited by decent old people from a bygone era, unlike the sorry new school generation that prevails today in the black community.

I'm tired of these tired old excuses with the black community. I think that many black mothers procreate very recklessly (unlike other races in most cases) with their desired 'bad boys', ultimately creating JR menaces to society; I think that many black mothers (usually with no dads around) long have lost the ability to nurture children. I really wish that I can say otherwise, but I don't think that nothing will ever change in the black community, and if anything it will continue to get worse. Suburbs in most cities will continue to push further and further out because of urban violence. I'm not here to sugarcoat or overlook the cancerous nature of the black community, if you want that, go to MSNBC, Huffpost etc.

   


CCMjax

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 10:28:57 AM »
Very interesting, thanks for the upload. I talked about this before and I really really hate beating a dead horse; I think that the 'highway cutting off a street causing mass chaos' is a canard and a convenient excuse to blame someone. Example: Look at Myrtle Ave, Moncrief, 45th St etc etc etc, long stretches of uninterrupted streets with no 'highway cut offs'; Last time I checked, they are in ghetto areas.

In some cases, these dead ends are actually little enclaves of decency. Hardee St off of Kings Rd were my sister's ex mother lives is a dead end cut off by a large train yard. There is no crime in that immediate area, but they may be someone shooting three blocks down. Same thing with my friends grandmother (who since passed on) who used to live on McDaniel Dr (dead end) off of Cleveland Rd. Some of these dead end areas are actually inhabited by decent old people from a bygone era, unlike the sorry new school generation that prevails today in the black community.

I'm tired of these tired old excuses with the black community. I think that many black mothers procreate very recklessly (unlike other races in most cases) with their desired 'bad boys', ultimately creating JR menaces to society; I think that many black mothers (usually with no dads around) long have lost the ability to nurture children. I really wish that I can say otherwise, but I don't think that nothing will ever change in the black community, and if anything it will continue to get worse. Suburbs in most cities will continue to push further and further out because of urban violence. I'm not here to sugarcoat or overlook the cancerous nature of the black community, if you want that, go to MSNBC, Huffpost etc.

 

More of a low income, uneducated population issue than a race issue in many respects.  Ever hung around a beat up old trailer park in the middle of Redneckville, USA?
"The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying 'This is mine,' and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society." - Jean Jacques Rousseau

thelakelander

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 10:48:55 AM »
Very interesting, thanks for the upload. I talked about this before and I really really hate beating a dead horse; I think that the 'highway cutting off a street causing mass chaos' is a canard and a convenient excuse to blame someone. Example: Look at Myrtle Ave, Moncrief, 45th St etc etc etc, long stretches of uninterrupted streets with no 'highway cut offs'; Last time I checked, they are in ghetto areas.

You're arriving to the party late. While not invested in at the same level as Jax's historically white neighborhoods, many of these black neighborhoods were fine before getting sliced up with expressways and having large swaths of them demolished for housing projects in the mid-20th century.  Throw in the end of Segregation, which gave blacks with the means move to better neighborhoods with better schools and you've got some decline on your hands. You, specifically mentioned Myrtle and Moncrief. Both are great examples of getting hammered by the 20th Street Expressway and I-95 in the 1950s/60s.
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gerschea@gmail.com

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 11:15:12 AM »
Last time I checked their are expressways that run right through many nice areas as well. Blaming crime on a freeway is pretty big stretch in my opinion. I blame it more on a lack of good education, solid families, and a culture that glorifies materialistic property and drugs dealing. When you have something like 70% of babies born into non-traditional 2 parent families your just asking for trouble. The solution starts at home, all attempts besides this will accomplish next to nothing at best. I have lived everywhere from Illinois, NY, NC, Michigan, to Florida and it is the same exact thing in every single place; violence, gangs, drugs, shootings, ect. wrecking havoc on the black communities, generally committed by the blacks themselves. I am in no way saying whites are perfect and don't commit crime b/c that would be idiotic, however at the same time i am not going to act like a pattern does not exist.

thelakelander

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2015, 11:27:29 AM »
^Who's blaming crime on expressways? I'm only sharing with you various factors on how many inner city neighborhoods fell into decline after WWII.

Give me an example of a 1950s era expressway being built through an established urban Florida neighborhood and 9 times out of 10, that neighborhood is economically worse off today than it was originally. Doesn't mean that this is the only cause but it is a factor in what eventually became white and black flight. Assuming that neighborhood is economically worse, it's most likely populated with a high percentage of residents living in poverty (doesn't matter if the race is black, white, yellow, red, etc.). Combine poverty with low educational achievement, limited mobility and no hope you'll end up with higher crime. This stuff isn't rocket science.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 11:31:56 AM by thelakelander »
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Adam White

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 11:28:45 AM »
I blame it more on a lack of good education, solid families, and a culture that glorifies materialistic property and drugs dealing. When you have something like 70% of babies born into non-traditional 2 parent families your just asking for trouble.

.... I am in no way saying whites are perfect and don't commit crime b/c that would be idiotic, however at the same time i am not going to act like a pattern does not exist.

Funny that your critique stops there ("lack of good education, solid families, and a culture that glorifies materialistic property and drugs dealing, etc") and doesn't dig deeper. Assuming that what you contend is true, has it ever occurred to you to consider the reasons for this? Why is it that white people are different? Is it just something that is inherent to a particular group? Or is it the result of something?

I think what you mention are symptoms of something greater.
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Adam White

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 11:29:44 AM »
^Who's blaming crime on expressways? I'm only sharing with you various factors on how many inner city neighborhoods fell into decline after WWII.

Give me an example of a 1950s era expressway being built through an established urban Florida neighborhood and 9 times out of 10, that neighborhood is economically worse off today than it was prior originally. Doesn't mean that this is the only cause but it is a factor in what eventually became white and black flight. Assuming that neighborhood is economically worse, it's most likely populated with a high percentage of residents living in poverty (doesn't matter if the race is black, white, yellow, red, etc.). Combine poverty with low educational achievement, limited mobility and no hope you'll end up with higher crime. This stuff isn't rocket science.

I'm not a planner or any type of expert - but I thought this was pretty much considered to be a settled fact.
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thelakelander

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 11:30:53 AM »
I have lived everywhere from Illinois, NY, NC, Michigan, to Florida and it is the same exact thing in every single place; violence, gangs, drugs, shootings, ect. wrecking havoc on the black communities, generally committed by the blacks themselves. I am in no way saying whites are perfect and don't commit crime b/c that would be idiotic, however at the same time i am not going to act like a pattern does not exist.

Try visiting some areas where poverty exists, despite a low percentage of blacks being present. This will challenge your line of thinking. There's definitely a pattern....but it's not necessarily centered around race.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 03:51:17 PM »
It hasn't been all that long ago that Arlington was among the most desirable places in Florida. The expressway was already in place, JU was established and Regency had it all... over a mile of it. The population shift that has taken place has wrecked Arlington, though some would argue that it can be turned back. It is an example of a fine neighborhood being overrun by an often lawless element and it's unfortunate that a large number of this group are black, but it also includes particularly Hispanics and low income whites. There is nothing about Arlington or St. Augustine Road/Kings/Powers, that can be laid on being cut up, or having low investment. In 1980, many wealthy and well maintained homes were stretched along St. Augustine Road/Kings/Powers and the only trigger I can find is the many apartment complexes all went to 'section 8' housing.

I think it all boils down to one thing... M O T I V A T I O N ! It might be fixed by motivation+reward. Sad that the kids on the film talk like they are being held down and that some invincible force is waiting to make war on them. 'We going on top?' Really? There is nobody to be on top of, when the final count is taken, there is only 'us.'

BennyKrik

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 03:59:09 PM »
It's da stuff white people like. Booya

thelakelander

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2015, 04:20:41 PM »
It hasn't been all that long ago that Arlington was among the most desirable places in Florida. The expressway was already in place, JU was established and Regency had it all... over a mile of it. The population shift that has taken place has wrecked Arlington, though some would argue that it can be turned back. It is an example of a fine neighborhood being overrun by an often lawless element and it's unfortunate that a large number of this group are black, but it also includes particularly Hispanics and low income whites. There is nothing about Arlington or St. Augustine Road/Kings/Powers, that can be laid on being cut up, or having low investment. In 1980, many wealthy and well maintained homes were stretched along St. Augustine Road/Kings/Powers and the only trigger I can find is the many apartment complexes all went to 'section 8' housing.

I think it all boils down to one thing... M O T I V A T I O N ! It might be fixed by motivation+reward. Sad that the kids on the film talk like they are being held down and that some invincible force is waiting to make war on them. 'We going on top?' Really? There is nobody to be on top of, when the final count is taken, there is only 'us.'

We'll let's take a look at Arlington. The expressway and the Mathews Bridge are main reasons Arlington grew in the first place.  Arlington is very different from urban neighborhoods already established and built out before WWII. Arlington is one of the earliest autocentric post WWII burbs. Nationwide, when the newness wears off of autocentric burbs, much of the economic investment moves on newer burbs. As housing ages and a certain economic class moves on, it becomes occupied by a lower economic class. Drilling down locally, when people are displaced due to their neighborhoods being demolished (think LaVilla, Blodgett Homes, Durkeeville Housing Projects, Brooklyn, etc.), that population is dispersed to the most affordable places. So 50-year-old apartment complexes like what consumes Justina and some older Westside neighborhoods become dominated by a lower income economic class. Older 20th century burbs like Cedar Hills, Emerson, Baymeadows, etc. face similar challenges. It really has little to do with black and white, even though in  the South, we tend to overly focus on color as opposed to our economic challenges and the results of those related politics.

With that said, outside of a few pockets with a high concentration of old multi-family housing, residential Arlington is pretty stable, from what I can tell.

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For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2015, 06:27:48 PM »
Very interesting, thanks for the upload. I talked about this before and I really really hate beating a dead horse; I think that the 'highway cutting off a street causing mass chaos' is a canard and a convenient excuse to blame someone. Example: Look at Myrtle Ave, Moncrief, 45th St etc etc etc, long stretches of uninterrupted streets with no 'highway cut offs'; Last time I checked, they are in ghetto areas.

You're arriving to the party late. While not invested in at the same level as Jax's historically white neighborhoods, many of these black neighborhoods were fine before getting sliced up with expressways and having large swaths of them demolished for housing projects in the mid-20th century.  Throw in the end of Segregation, which gave blacks with the means move to better neighborhoods with better schools and you've got some decline on your hands. You, specifically mentioned Myrtle and Moncrief. Both are great examples of getting hammered by the 20th Street Expressway and I-95 in the 1950s/60s.

Until some recent investment, parts of Moncrief have looked like a third world country. That is the truth when it comes to investment. However, I think the highway aspect is overblown as well just because those neighborhoods were in decline one way or another due to all the other factors discussed in here. LaVilla was really hurt but North Jax not so much IMO. Actually, Ribault was mostly maintained and used to be a white neighborhood. Still most of the houses on the river are nice, but the area is still crime infested due to drugs with regular murders. The relative location of an accessible and easy freeway may actually lend towards this area improving in the long term because the stock in homes is nice (compared to the areas south of there).

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2015, 06:44:18 PM »
That kid is smiling when he's talking about his dead friends, real cool.
Bigger problem is that the kid is 17 and out on the streets, where are his parent(s)?
Guidance is what thugs need, black or white, doesn't matter.
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thelakelander

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Re: History Of Tha Streetz: Another Side of Jacksonville
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 07:11:53 PM »
Very interesting, thanks for the upload. I talked about this before and I really really hate beating a dead horse; I think that the 'highway cutting off a street causing mass chaos' is a canard and a convenient excuse to blame someone. Example: Look at Myrtle Ave, Moncrief, 45th St etc etc etc, long stretches of uninterrupted streets with no 'highway cut offs'; Last time I checked, they are in ghetto areas.

You're arriving to the party late. While not invested in at the same level as Jax's historically white neighborhoods, many of these black neighborhoods were fine before getting sliced up with expressways and having large swaths of them demolished for housing projects in the mid-20th century.  Throw in the end of Segregation, which gave blacks with the means move to better neighborhoods with better schools and you've got some decline on your hands. You, specifically mentioned Myrtle and Moncrief. Both are great examples of getting hammered by the 20th Street Expressway and I-95 in the 1950s/60s.

Until some recent investment, parts of Moncrief have looked like a third world country. That is the truth when it comes to investment. However, I think the highway aspect is overblown as well just because those neighborhoods were in decline one way or another due to all the other factors discussed in here. LaVilla was really hurt but North Jax not so much IMO.

I think you guys are confused by the development pattern of the city and when actual neighborhoods throughout the city, came into development.

Quote
Actually, Ribault was mostly maintained and used to be a white neighborhood.

Ribault and Moncrief were developed at different periods of time. Much of Moncrief was platted and largely developed prior to the Great Depression. From my understanding, it was always black as well. Ribault and much of the neighborhoods outside of the Edgewood loop are suburbs that were developed after WWII. Much of the autocentric growth happened in the 50s and 60s, mirroring Gateway's time as Jax's premier shopping mall. These places were considered aging by the 70s. My parents were one of the first blacks to purchase a home off Locksley Avenue in the early 70s.

Quote
Still most of the houses on the river are nice, but the area is still crime infested due to drugs with regular murders. The relative location of an accessible and easy freeway may actually lend towards this area improving in the long term because the stock in homes is nice (compared to the areas south of there).

1950s freeway construction impacted neighborhoods that were already built up prior to 1950. Neighborhoods in Jax, developed after the Jax Expressway Authority got started, were auto centric and developed as a result of the new highway infrastructure that allowed residents to stay further away from the core of the city.  Fast forward 60 years and these suburbs are old, blighted and aging....replaced by newer burbs (River City Marketplace area, Oakleaf, Northern St. Johns County, Kernan, etc.).
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali