Author Topic: Creating a Timeline for Downtown  (Read 5440 times)

Metro Jacksonville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2644
    • MetroJacksonville.com
Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« on: October 09, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »
Creating a Timeline for Downtown



 When the locals look back at the  Good Old Days , especially in regards to the nearly mythic state of Jacksonville's fabled Downtown, they generally lack and sense of specifics. Specifics like exactly when, or what made it so great, or exactly how big it was or even what people used to do back in those gilded days of Downtown wine and honey are simply unattainable in detail. Sighs.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/226

Jason

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4296
  • I am the man in the box...
Excellent Timeline!
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 01:25:34 PM »
Its amazing how much was discovered about Jacksonville's history by simply comparing phonebooks.  The combination of the new toll bridges and the addition of the meters really seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

So, we just take out the meters and put the tolls back in and Jacksonville should revert back to being an urban powerhouse...right?  Maybe throw in some tax incentives for residential infill and let the commerce do its job on its own.  Seems like an easy fix to me.

ennis cashby

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2006, 11:03:36 AM »
what if it's just that the urban directories switched to smaller print in the years in question?

what if the suburban directories switched to a larger typeface to accomodate an older suburban population?

that could've led to smaller and larger directories, respectively.

i love how scientific your methods are, stevey boy.

ennis cashby

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2006, 07:54:13 AM »
And that's fine, but you don't address typeface in your article and when your chief evidence is the volume of a book, then that must be addressed.

All in all, I find the article too conspiratorial in nature. The period of time in which you place the decline of downtown Jax also happens to be the period of time in which White Flight was ocurring all over the country.

Are you insinuating that local gov't purposefully killed downtown? Or are you just saying that toll bridges and parking meters led to the stifling of downtown business?  

sandyshoes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 09:59:09 AM »
Regarding the 'era of good feeling' if you will of the days gone by in Jacksonville - in my limited experience and childhood memories, my opinion is that it is recalled with such deep sighs and emotion because it was, forgive the cliche, a simpler time - but also more elegant.  Dressing to the teeth to go downtown, as you mentioned.  It seems to me people not only had more respect for themselves, but for others - hence, the dressing up so as not to offend anyone.  These days, even at weddings or funerals, some people look (and smell) as if they just rolled off the couch and decided to show up somewhere.  It went without saying that you were expected to have and show manners - again, as a sign of respect for yourself and for others.  Don't make me get on my amateur soapbox with societal issues...it all comes down to what people consider old fashioned, useless morals.  Nice people just did not do certain things, nor would anyone dare speak about anything and everything as we now do.   It wasn't a permissive society, for the large part.  Just my own observation and opinion.  One thing leads to another, and I think the first domino that fell was respect.

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11195
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 11:03:04 AM »
So if the meters and bridge tolls were the root cause, why did downtowns in just about every city in the U.S. decline during the same time period?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:04:46 AM by tufsu1 »

NthDegree

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 11:35:43 AM »
Excellent effort to illustrate the point.  My compliments to MetroJax.   
tufsu1 .. also... good point, Jax follows the national demographic shift of population to the suburbs.  The 2010 Census will likely show the start of a reversal of that trend.  Let's hope so, I have been wondering how long we can afford our driving habits a la Jim Kuntsler.     

civil42806

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2009, 12:14:08 PM »
Very interesting Article Stephen, I'm just old enough to remember shopping downtown.  Interesting approach to evaluate downtowns delcine.

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11195
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2009, 01:00:10 PM »
Almost all cities around the country implemented the same ruinous policies.

Note that the same fate did not befall the european or even the american cities that did not implement these types of policies.


yes...almost all cities around the country instituted bridge tolls  ;)

but seriously....what major city in the U.S. didn't show a decline in their downtown after WW II? LA, Chicago, NYC, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, San Francisco?

The bottom line is most downtowns declined because of policies such as the GI Bill, Interstate System, FHA loans, etc.  And people were more than happy to run out to the suburbs because cities were seen as congested, dirty, and crime-ridden....plus they got as new home w/ a yard!

« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 01:03:24 PM by tufsu1 »

Miss Fixit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 519
Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2010, 09:02:22 AM »
What is the city's net income from parking meters and parking fines downtown? 

hanjin1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2010, 09:44:50 AM »
1 gazillion dollars

sheclown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5554
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2010, 09:50:49 AM »
I hadn't really thought about parking costs/fines/tickets/meters until recently. 

It is a crazy thing to punish people for attempting to use the services downtown.

What is the cost to the city for using parking as a revenue generator?

JUUC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Creating a Timeline for Downtown
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 09:29:10 PM »
Quote
When did it all start to go downhill? Was there a trigger?

There really is no pin pointed time or specific reformation that caused a major social shift in Jacksonville's history, it was in fact an accumulation of events that happened locally and around the world. However, there are events within the flux that deserve more recognition for being pernicious to Jax. One such event(s) are those leading up to The Blue Print For Improvement. A divide and conquer manifesto concerned about the growing number of "non-whites" in the area and correlates the growing number of blacks with the deterioration of the city.

The statistical picture within the city of Jacksonville shows a city in decline…not only has the general population dropped but the white population has declined 10.4% while the non-white population increased 14.1%…Jacksonville population [is] shifting from white to non-white (Blueprint For Improvement, pp.16, 1966)

What should of been exalted as a city of culture, deep rooted in heritage, was for ever catalyzed with white-modernization concomitant of exurbia promoted by the newly ratified Bold New City of the South. After the consolidation of Jacksonville the city did witness "lower taxes, increased economic development, better public spending and effective administration by a more central authority" (Jacksonville Historic Society, Journal-Consolidation). The latent dysfunctions of consolidation, however, would later prove to outweigh it's positive impact with the loss of Jacksonville's cultural capital.

To be clear, it's not about who may or may not of been a racist--nor can it really be proven that there is a bridge between the Burns Administration and Yates' Blueprint. Though, to deny the first act of reform as propaedeutic to the latter especially given context of that era, and to not concern one's self with the possibility that one was antecedent to the other; given such reasonable suspicion, one would not be a very prudent in examining Jacksonville's past if such accusations are not taken into consideration. (JUUC, Transcending Jacksonville, 2012).
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:30:56 PM by JUUC »