Author Topic: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon  (Read 76797 times)

BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #240 on: May 22, 2017, 07:36:48 AM »
When DoD sends out an unarmed, undefended signals intelligence aircraft, it should have some form of contingency planning.

Essentially we had gotten so used to uncontested signet collection, that we got a little lazy. The PLAAF may have done us a favor by waking us up from our stupor.

Agreed.  We got complacent because during the Cold War we had the INCSEA agreement ( https://www.state.gov/t/isn/4791.htm )with the Soviets. 

Specifically, the agreement provides for:

-steps to avoid collision;
-not interfering in the "formations" of the other party;
-avoiding maneuvers in areas of heavy sea traffic;
-requiring surveillance ships to maintain a safe distance from the object of investigation so as to avoid "embarrassing or endangering the ships under surveillance";
-using accepted international signals when ships maneuver near one another;
-not simulating attacks at, launching objects toward, or illuminating the bridges of the other partys ships;
-informing vessels when submarines are exercising near them; and
-requiring aircraft commanders to use the greatest caution and prudence in approaching aircraft and ships of the other party and not permitting simulated attacks against aircraft or ships, performing aerobatics over ships, or dropping hazardous objects near them.


In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #241 on: May 22, 2017, 07:40:33 AM »
Additionally... the some of the "spooks" doing the sigint analysis were not really trained aircrew.  My bet is they are now.  That document outlined some of the crew deficiencies particularly with regard to the destruction of equipment and data.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

spuwho

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #242 on: May 25, 2017, 01:27:36 PM »
Well, the Cold War on navigation has restarted.

After Trump was elected, we had a brief moratorium on unprofessional air encounters and FON's.

Now that a RC-135 Constant Phoenix was harassed by PLAAF jets, we send an Arleigh Burke (USS Dewey) 12 miles from Fiery Cross Reef.

Let the diplomatic protests re-continue in earnest.

Per Reuters:

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKBN18K353

Reuters

China scolds U.S. over South China Sea naval patrol
X
By Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart | WASHINGTON
A U.S. Navy warship sailed within 12 nautical miles of an artificial island built up by China in the South China Sea, U.S. officials said on Wednesday, the first such challenge to Beijing in the strategic waterway since U.S. President Donald Trump took office.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the USS Dewey traveled close to the Mischief Reef in the Spratly Islands, among a string of islets, reefs and shoals over which China has territorial disputes with its neighbors.

China said its warships had warned the U.S. ship and it lodged "stern representations" with the United States. China said it remained resolutely opposed to so-called freedom of navigation operations.

The U.S. patrol, the first of its kind since October, marked the latest attempt to counter what Washington sees as Beijing's efforts to limit freedom of navigation in the strategic waters, and comes as Trump is seeking China's cooperation to rein in ally North Korea's nuclear and missile programs.

Territorial waters are generally defined by U.N. convention as extending at most 12 nautical miles from a state's coastline.

One U.S. official said it was the first operation near a land feature which was included in a ruling last year against China by an international arbitration court in The Hague. The court invalidated China's claim to sovereignty over large swathes of the South China Sea.

The United States has criticized China's construction of islands and build-up of military facilities in the sea, and is concerned they could be used to restrict free movement.

U.S. allies and partners in the region had grown anxious as the Trump administration held off on carrying out South China Sea operations during its first few months in office.

Last month, top U.S. commander in the Asia-Pacific region, Admiral Harry Harris, said the United States would likely carry out freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea soon.

Still, the U.S. military has a long-standing position that the operations are carried out throughout the world, including in areas claimed by allies, and they are separate from political considerations.

"We operate in the Asia-Pacific region on a daily basis, including in the South China Sea. We operate in accordance with international law," Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said in a statement.

The Pentagon gave no details of the latest mission.

'ERRANT WAYS'

Chinese defense ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang told a monthly briefing two Chinese guided-missile warships had warned the U.S. vessel to leave the waters, and China had complained to the United States.

"The U.S. side's errant ways have caused damage to the improving situation in the South China Sea, and are not conducive to peace and stability," Ren said.


Ren was referring to a recent of easing of tension between China and other claimants, in particular the Philippines.

China's extensive claims to the South China Sea, which sees about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade pass every year, are challenged by Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam, as well as Taiwan.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said such patrols were "very likely to cause unexpected sea and air accidents".

Under the previous U.S. administration, the Navy conducted several such voyages through the South China Sea. The last operation was approved by then-President Barack Obama.

The latest U.S. patrol is likely to exacerbate U.S.-China tensions that had eased since Trump hosted Chinese President Xi Jinping for a summit in Florida resort last month.

Trump lambasted China during the 2016 presidential campaign, accusing it of stealing U.S. jobs with unfair trade policies, manipulating its currency and militarizing parts of the South China Sea.

In December, after winning office, he upended protocol by taking a call from the president of self-ruled Taiwan, which China regards as its own sacred territory.

But since meeting Xi, Trump has praised him for efforts to restrain North Korea, though it has persisted with ballistic missile tests.

U.S.-based South China Sea expert Greg Poling of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the operation was the first conducted by the United States close to an artificial feature built by China not entitled to a territorial sea under international law.

Previous freedom of navigation operations have gone within 12 nautical miles of Subi and Fiery Cross reefs, two other features in the Spratlys built up by China, but both of those features are entitled to a territorial sea.

Mischief Reef was not entitled to a territorial sea as it was underwater at high tide before it was built up by China and was not close enough to another feature entitled to such a territorial sea, said Poling.

He said the key question was whether the U.S. warship had engaged in a real challenge to the Chinese claims by turning on radar or launching a helicopter or boat - actions not permitted in a territorial sea under international law.

Otherwise, critics say, the operation would have resembled what is known as "innocent passage" and could have reinforced rather than challenged China's claim to a territorial limit around the reef.

spuwho

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #243 on: May 26, 2017, 02:46:06 PM »
Stakes go up a notch.

2 PLAAF J-10 fighters intercepted and harassed a Navy P-3 Orion in the South China Sea early today. One J-10 got 300 yards in front of the Orion.

I suspect we will see in the near future 2 Navy combat aircraft involved soon.

The PROC keep complaining about probable miscalculations and unplanned engagements, but we have been as predictable as ever, yet no one knows when they send planes out to us.

spuwho

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #244 on: July 07, 2017, 09:29:34 AM »
After harassment by PLAN ships of a US destroyer passing through the South China Sea last week, the USAF sent 2, B1-B bombers through the airspace of Mischief Reef yesterday.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry was not so defiant this time saying, "there was nothing preventing the US from navigating the area" but ripped the US for using FON as a way to hurt China's sovereignty.

Hmmm. Trump meets the Chinese president at the G20 this week.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #245 on: July 07, 2017, 01:17:10 PM »
Good. Perhaps we can use these overflights as leverage to get some help with the north Koreans
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #246 on: July 24, 2017, 10:21:36 AM »
http://news.trust.org/item/20170724134615-qhl7j

Quote
Chinese jets intercept U.S. surveillance plane - U.S. officials
by Reuters
Monday, 24 July 2017 14:02 GMT

WASHINGTON, July 24 (Reuters) - Two Chinese fighter jets intercepted a U.S. Navy surveillance plane over the East China Sea over the weekend, with one coming within about 300 feet (91 meters) of the American aircraft, two U.S. officials told Reuters on Monday.

The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said initial reports showed one of the Chinese J-10 aircraft came close to the U.S. EP-3 plane on Sunday, causing the American aircraft to change direction. (Reporting by Idrees Ali; Editing by Jeffrey Benkoe)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

spuwho

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #247 on: July 25, 2017, 09:14:22 AM »
http://news.trust.org/item/20170724134615-qhl7j

Quote
Chinese jets intercept U.S. surveillance plane - U.S. officials
by Reuters
Monday, 24 July 2017 14:02 GMT

WASHINGTON, July 24 (Reuters) - Two Chinese fighter jets intercepted a U.S. Navy surveillance plane over the East China Sea over the weekend, with one coming within about 300 feet (91 meters) of the American aircraft, two U.S. officials told Reuters on Monday.

The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said initial reports showed one of the Chinese J-10 aircraft came close to the U.S. EP-3 plane on Sunday, causing the American aircraft to change direction. (Reporting by Idrees Ali; Editing by Jeffrey Benkoe)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/china-fires-back-at-us-accusations-over-aerial-encounter/2017/07/25/ed2521bc-711e-11e7-8c17-533c52b2f014_story.html

BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #248 on: July 25, 2017, 01:49:29 PM »


In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #249 on: July 25, 2017, 11:19:44 PM »
Quote
...approached at a high rate of speed from beneath the American plane, then slowed and pulled up...

I'm pretty sure it was a maneuver like that that got Goose killed. 

I guess we're lucky no one was injured.
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BridgeTroll

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Re: Chinese fighter intercepts Navy Poseidon
« Reply #250 on: December 15, 2017, 08:13:27 AM »
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/12/15/a_constructive_year_for_chinese_base_building_112784.html

Quote
A Constructive Year for Chinese Base Building
By CSIS/AMTI
December 15, 2017
International attention has shifted away from the slow-moving crisis in the South China Sea over the course of 2017, but the situation on the water has not remained static. While pursuing diplomatic outreach toward its Southeast Asian neighbors, Beijing continued substantial construction activities on its dual-use outposts in the Spratly and Paracel Islands. China completed the dredging and landfilling operations to create its seven new islands in the Spratlys by early 2016, and seems to have halted such operations to expand islets in the Paracels by mid-2017. But Beijing remains committed to advancing the next phase of its build-up—construction of the infrastructure necessary for fully-functioning air and naval bases on the larger outposts......
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."