The Rebirth of Avenues Walk

[Metro Jacksonville]

The Rebirth of Avenues Walk



A decade has passed since Avenues Walk was first proposed. Now, with 122,435 residents living within a 5-mile radius of the site, with an average household income of $79,162, a new plan for this long-delayed infill development has emerged.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jun-the-rebirth-of-avenues-walk

[finehoe]

Where's the "Walk" part?  They should call it " Avenues Drive".

[Keith-N-Jax]

Looks pretty nice

[IrvAdams]

Where's the "Walk" part?  They should call it " Avenues Drive".

Lol. I've seen that 'walk' designation used for a number of developments and shopping centers over the years; it's more like 'dodge cars'.

[Ocklawaha]

Seems like the 'promenade' concept of a couple of the earlier plans was a lot more pedestrian friendly.

[ProjectMaximus]

at least they're still planning for a commuter rail station. must be tough to juggle whats best for now vs what will be best in the long run. Especially when the rail aspect is so uncertain in regards to timeframe.

[CCMjax]

Only one of those concepts looks pedestrian friendly and i bet they don't end up doing that one because it is just not in jacksonvilles DNA yet.  How about we also focus on infill projects in areas that actually have a chance at being pedestrian friendly like baymeadows and san jose where the cove recently started back up.  I do like the idea of eventually linking the avenues area to rail transit but i think the mall needs to go first.  Same with regency mall.  Those are huge eyesores and traffic chaos preventing anyone from wanting to live by them.  It probably isnt feasable in the next ten years but eventually these malls need to be replaced with more sustainable, pedestrian centric redevelopments.  Jax is getting too big and spread out to not start thinking about this.  It has been done elsewhere.  Jax needs to follow the lead of other southeast cities trying to combat sprawl like Charlotte and Atlanta, heck even Orlando to some degree.  They all have had the same issues but those other cities seem to be lightyears ahead of Jax in their progression of infill projects and sustainable communities.  And i dont say these things from a liberal hippy mindset, rather a person who just wants to be able to walk down to a store in his community and is genuinely concerned about us losing all our land to unplanned thoughtless and careless development.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

And i dont say these things from a liberal hippy mindset, rather a person who just wants to be able to walk down to a store in his community and is genuinely concerned about us losing all our land to unplanned thoughtless and careless development.

I read statements like this all the time, and I'm being completely genuine when I ask:  So where do you live?

Though most of us here really like the "thought" of living in a dense, walkable area, but what have we done to make it happen?  I know money and jobs don't grow on trees, but 'choosing' to live in... Oakleaf, but 'wanting' the Riverside amenities.....  If you're not part of the solution.....

[CCMjax]

Non-RedNeck Westsider,

Moved to the Fruit Cove area from out of town about a year ago without knowing anything about Jax.  Had to make a quick decision and there weren't, and still aren't, any walkable community options in Jax east of the river other than San Marco which is $$$$$.  One of the reasons we chose FC is because Bartram Oaks Walk is the only thing that resembles a walkable development (although small) outside of the San Marco area east of the river.  My wife and I just walked their the other day from our house, and do quite often, so yes we are doing our part to contribute to the success of these communities.  The point I made previously applies not only to the city but also the communities (suburbs) around the city.  However, I think one of the main attractions to San Marco is not only location but also that it is very pedestrian friendly and feels like a small town in the city.  A lot of people love that, myself included, therefore many people want to live there but it is the only option on this side of town with that kind of feel.  It has no competition from other similar neighborhoods so it is very expensive because it can be.  If there were more options like that in the city it may make home prices more reasonable than they typically are for one or two isolated communities like this because of competition.  This would motivate people like myself to move in to the city.  After all we have to pay for private schools if we do so, which is a whole other huge issue.

[ProjectMaximus]

Non-RedNeck Westsider,

Moved to the Fruit Cove area from out of town about a year ago without knowing anything about Jax.  Had to make a quick decision and there weren't, and still aren't, any walkable community options in Jax east of the river other than San Marco which is $$$$$.  One of the reasons we chose FC is because Bartram Oaks Walk is the only thing that resembles a walkable development (although small) outside of the San Marco area east of the river.  My wife and I just walked their the other day from our house, and do quite often, so yes we are doing our part to contribute to the success of these communities.  The point I made previously applies not only to the city but also the communities (suburbs) around the city.  However, I think one of the main attractions to San Marco is not only location but also that it is very pedestrian friendly and feels like a small town in the city.  A lot of people love that, myself included, therefore many people want to live there but it is the only option on this side of town with that kind of feel.  It has no competition from other similar neighborhoods so it is very expensive because it can be.  If there were more options like that in the city it may make home prices more reasonable than they typically are for one or two isolated communities like this because of competition.  This would motivate people like myself to move in to the city.  After all we have to pay for private schools if we do so, which is a whole other huge issue.

I know we're setting the bar really low here but I thought I'd mention a few other quasi-walkable areas that I occasionally enjoy east of the river: St Nicholas, Lakewood, St Johns Town Center, Tapestry Park, Deerwood Lake, Deerwood Village, Beaches Town Center, Jax Beach. I refrained from including Tinseltown because it's somewhat redundant to Tapestry Park and Deerwood Lake, and it doesn't have any residential (besides hotel) in its immediate vicinity.

[CCMjax]

PM,

Ha ha, yeah that is setting the bar low!  St. Nicholas doesn't really have anything worth walking to.  Lakewood has potential if the intersection of San Jose and University was redesigned.  St. Johns Town Center is a glorified mall surrounded by huge parking lots and thousands of cars.  Deerwood Lake is a glorified strip mall area with no single family home options.  I like Tapestry Park . . . until you walk outside of the very small nice area of Tapestry Park and find yourself confined by a very wide busy street on one side, a lake on the other and private office buildings with huge parking lots on the other sides, and again no mix of single family homes close to it.  It seems like the developers of these newer communities had sort of the right intentions but failed to create thoughtful commercial and residential integration with a mix of options within the area as a whole.  It's as if each developer of each plot of land in that Southside area had an entirely different idea of how the area should be planned and designed and there was no common thought process of direction.  Here you go developers . . . . some available land . . . have at it!

[thelakelander]

with no single family home options.

Just wondering. How do you view cities like Philly, where most of the housing stock is not single family?

[sonoandrea]

Deerwood Lake is a glorified strip mall area with no single family home options. 

Actually, there is a small single family home community off Touchton Rd, between Belfort Road and the Drayton Park townhomes (which are behind the Montreaux condos).

I currently rent in Deerwood Place condos.  I love the community concept (six mid-rise controlled access buildings with secure parking, storage and lobby on the first floor and four floors of eight units each) and wish there were more options like this closer to San Marco or Riverside/Avondale.  I do like that I am basically equidistant to the beach or the urban core and its only 30 minutes to the airport.  But even though the area is technically walkable, there is nothing within walking distance that I want to go to.

Also, I had no idea that Avenues Walk was intended to be such a big development.  I would NOT want to live that close to the train tracks though.

[CCMjax]

Lakelander,

I lived in Chicago for six and a half years, which is very much like Philly in terms of housing options.  I lived in three different neighborhoods that all had a great mix of commercial, multi family and single family residential.  There were things I liked and didn't like about Chicago but comparing Jax to Philly or Chicago is like apples and oranges just based on the way the different cities have developed.  Cities like Philly and Chicago developed a lot well before WWII before everyone had a car, most of Jacksonville's development was post WWII and a totally different style once automobiles were common.  I think you have to compare Jax to similar cities like Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas.  All three have had huge problems with sprawl after WWII but are starting to combat it more than Jax is with small infill projects here and there making the neighborhoods and communities a little more pedestrian friendly.  A lot of areas in those cities are a work in progress but going in the right direction.  I don't think Jax will ever be like Philly or Chicago in terms of density nor do I think it should, I just want it to become more pedestrian friendly.  Personally I like feeling like I'm in a small town in the middle of the city like what San Marco has.  I just don't like developments that claim to be a "town centre" and sold on being a "downtown" and walkable when they really aren't unless you are right in the middle of the development and have driven there by car.  Most, like the SJTC, are just suburban malls without a roof with enormous parking lots around them making it inconvenient to get to other than by car.

[thelakelander]

I totally understand your position!