Author Topic: Where Are The Trolleys Now?  (Read 2860 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Where Are The Trolleys Now?
« on: April 24, 2007, 12:00:00 AM »
Where Are The Trolleys Now?



The story goes that the Jacksonville Traction Company got its historical start when an African American man found a four wheel tram, built a car body on it, and went into the street railroad business. While that may sound far fetched today, it should be remembered that many different trams and rails were in use in industry, such as sawmilling, throughout the area. There is also a story of the first car to climb the old Acosta Bridge Viaduct in Riverside. It is said that when the motorman reached the top and looked down the hill, he set the brakes, got off and quit his job. Having talked to many of the old crews, they said that hill never gave them any trouble.

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downtownparks

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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 06:48:00 AM »
How do we get those open air trolleys back? How awesome would that be???

RG has once posted its about 12 Million a mile for light rail, what is the cost for trolleys?

cashby

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egregious grammar errors
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 08:26:22 AM »
The title of this post is wrong. It should be "Where Are the Trolleys Now?"

thelakelander

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Trolley costs?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 08:55:52 AM »
Its about $12 million a mile for trolleys, at least in Tampa's case.  Light rail can range anywhere from $20 million upwards to $40 or $50 million depending on the amount of bells and whistles included in the system.
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RG

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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 09:58:22 AM »
DTParks:  The $12 million figure I citged was from the Tampa trolley extension.  So, that seems to be roughly the present day cost of putting in a trolley (although I dont know if they had to buy additional cars).  I would LOVE to see streetcars return to the streets of Jacksonville.

downtownparks

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 10:44:46 AM »
How feasible is it? Has JTA ever even broached the subject?

It you built trolley lines to interconnect with the skyway, and let the skyway connect downtown and south bank trolley lines, you could conceivably connect 8th and Main with San Marco Sq and 5 points ... you could even add the Stadium, and you are still coming in under $100 Mill, and you are getting a downtown that interacts with its most important neighbors.

Jason

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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 11:15:24 AM »
Trolley lines could easily connect the skyway's terminus points to its corresponding historic neighborhood.  San Marco, for example, could be serviced very easily with a loop system starting at the skyway's Prudential Station and running down San Marco through the "square" and then turning down Hendricks to the Kings Ave. Station and garage.  This same concept could be repeated for all three historic neighborhoods.

Lunican

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3 systems
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 12:03:51 PM »
The only problem I see with connecting to the end points of the skyway is that you would have 3 separate systems. It would be nice if it was one.

The skyway track is built wide enough for a double track trolley line to be retrofitted onto it. Maybe that's a crazy idea, but not as crazy as JTA's idea of driving buses on it!

BagLady

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Trolley cars would suit me fine!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 12:41:29 AM »
Anything would be an improvement. I wish I could see trolley cars back in Jacksonville, I'd love, also as one other person commented, to be able to just park my car and be able to get around the city withour driving. The traffic, the bad drivers, rudeness and danger just from driving in our city streets--it would be a real pleasure to be able to park my car, leave it home, hop on a trolly and get all the way away from the madness that comes from my daily commutes!  

Garry B. Coston

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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007, 05:21:09 AM »
Wasn't or isn't the people mover designed for the same purpose?

thelakelander

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Apples and Oranges
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2007, 09:30:27 AM »
The streetcar system was something that connected the city's neighborhoods with the downtown core and other districts.  The streetcar system was abandonded for the city buses you see on the streets today.  On the otherhand, the peoplemover was an expensive federally funded demonstration project only intended to move people around downtown.  One of the major reasons it fails is because it doesn't serve areas where people live, in addition to there being no regional rail system serving those areas to feed riders into it, which was originally planned.
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LPBrennan

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Re: Where Are The Trolleys Now?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2010, 10:58:52 AM »
Regarding PCC streetcars:
Jacksonville's system was doomed by the 1932 franchise election, but Tampa and St. Petersburg had street railways that lasted until after World War II. I don't know about Tampa's, but I have read that St. Petersburg's management looked into the feasibility of obtaining PCC's to modernize their mostly Birney fleet. The problem was that St. Pete had several small bridges with such sharp humps that a double-trucked car would have been unable to negotiate them like the single-truck Birneys. (Think of the bridge on Lakeside behind Roosevelt Mall.)
One of the fascinating things about St. Pete was the existence of a car line named "JUNGLE"!
And for those who don't know: PCC stands for Presidents' Conference Committee. In the late 1920s, the Electric Railroad Presidents' Association set up a committee to investigate a design a standard streetcar. After extensive studies and experiments, a prototype was built and tested in 1935. In 1936 mass production of the PCC was begun. The cars were fast, quiet and comfortable, and the design is a classic of basic good looks. It was copied all over the world, and tens of thousands were in operation. In this country they are mostly in museums, but the Ashmont-Mattapan Red Line in Boston still uses them, and the Muni in San Francisco runs them on the F line along Market and the Embarcadero, where they are painted in the liveries of many of the cities which ran them. Philadelphia has a tourist line which uses them, as well.
Here's a picture of one in San Francisco, painted in the colors of Cincinnati's cars:

Hard to believe this was designed 75 years ago!

And for more info on them: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfleet/histcars.php
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 11:00:35 AM by LPBrennan »