Author Topic: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?  (Read 29789 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« on: December 23, 2013, 03:00:02 AM »
Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?



The Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) wants to spend $136 million to expand the Fuller Warren Bridge. They claim including a bicycle and pedestrian crossing as a part of the project isn't possible on an interstate highway. Here are some examples across the country that suggest otherwise.


 

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-dec-bikes-pedestrians-on-the-fuller-warren-bridge

vicupstate

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 06:00:32 AM »
I'm guessing that the FDOT Executive is appointed by the Governor?  If so, I would let the Governor know your thoughts as well.
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peestandingup

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 08:20:38 AM »
Before anyone says this is a "northern thing", Charleston did the same thing when they tore down their old Cooper River Bridge (from Charleston to Mt Pleasant): https://lh3.ggpht.com/-ADpCLLV2S_s/Un2V1sEuIdI/AAAAAAAAAMo/Hhaoesym3Vk/s1600/SAM_0240.JPG

As long as they make it better than our Main Street Bridge path then I'm all for it. That path is half-assed, not nearly wide enough. Its barely wide enough for two people to stand side by side, let alone two bikes meeting. And if you're towing your kids in a trailer forget about it.

thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 08:39:10 AM »


It's not an interstate but it is pretty nice and representative of something that could be done with the Fuller Warren.

As for the Main Street Bridge, it has an excuse. It was built in 1941....Outside of the Acosta, ever other river crossing built in the decades following ignored all non motorized traffic.
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thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 09:55:39 AM »
Here are some Florida examples of limited access highways with bike/ped accommodations:

Suncoast Trail parallels the Turnpike Authority's Suncoast Parkway.  IMO, something like this should have been included as a part of 9B and the First Coast Expressway. This one includes fencing for all those road engineers who fear pedestrians will run in front of or throw rocks at cars.






This is MacArthur Causeway in downtown Miami where I-395 and SR AIA come together. Ramps for a tunnel to the port are currently being constructed in the median of this bridge over Biscayne Bay. Take note of the sidewalks that exist on both sides.





I plan on spending a few hours in South Beach next week, so I may try and get some better pictures if time allows.
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IrvAdams

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 10:01:51 AM »
It can be done locally. A decent example of a bike/predestrian path is alongside the (relatively) new McCormick Road/Wonderwood Expressway corridor in the Ft. Caroline area. It goes from the end of Kernan Blvd to Mayport. Gets a lot of bicycle and some foot traffic and crosses several bodies of water, marshes etc.
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thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 10:26:58 AM »
Here you go!



Given the residential and employment population density adjacent to the Fuller Warren, I suspect it would be a pretty popular connection and something of a visual "gateway" for those driving through the area, if done right.  For example, the new San Sebastian River Bridge in St. Augustine came out pretty nice.



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Dog Walker

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 10:57:43 AM »
FDOT is using the fact that the Acosta Bridge is "so close" to the Fuller Warren bridge and provides bicycle and pedestrian access to refuse to consider the same for the Fuller Warren project.
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thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 11:08:13 AM »
The Acosta Bridge is also under capacity and it offers six lanes for cars.  It's much easier for a driver to use the Acosta or Hart Bridge via Emerson (I know, I do all the time during rush hour) depending on where you're headed, then walking two miles out of the way in the heat or rain. Anyway, that's not a sound excuse since there is nothing on the books validating such a thought.
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 11:16:28 AM »
Thank you for the link.  Email sent.  Hope you don't mind, but I attached a link back to the editorial as well.
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coredumped

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 11:23:52 AM »
Imaging that, the FLORIDA DOT doesn't want to do something pedestrian friendly! They're happy remaining high up on the list I guess:



Table 5: Top Three States With the Highest or Lowest Pedestrian Fatalities
State Name /  Rank* / % / Number of Fatalities
The highest
California / 1 / 14.4 / 7,056
Florida / 2 / 10.4 / 5,125
Texas / 3 / 8.7 / 4,269
The lowest
North Dakota / 51 / 0.1 / 48
Vermont / 50 / 0.1 / 60
Wyoming / 49 / 0.1 / 71
Source: FARS 1997-2005 (Final), 2006 (ARF) * Rank based on fatality percentage

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Jumpinjack

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 12:08:29 PM »
Would Metro Jacksonville support the expansion of the bridge and the related north/south interchange expansions if a pedestrian/bicycle facility were added?

thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 12:26:49 PM »
Personally, I don't have a problem with the idea of FDOT spending money to improve traffic flow on I-95. Where the rubber meets the road is in the impact to surrounding residents, businesses, communities and how it fits within the overall long term goals of the city as a whole.

I can't speak on the behalf of Metro Jacksonville as a group but I would think this would be one of the concessions that would be needed. That's something that could economically benefit the revitalization of downtown (Brooklyn/Southbank), as well as encourage infill in Northern San Marco and Five Points. This is a form of infrastructure that lays the foundation for walkable communities.

With all of that said, I think it's too early in the game to say yes or no.  At this point, we don't know what true negative impacts will be or determine the best methods for alleviating them....if those alternatives exist.

However, it's not too early to get creative in this discussion and for the community to shape a solution as opposed to being forced to accept whatever FDOT wants to do.
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thelakelander

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 12:54:39 PM »
Let me elaborate on this a little more.  From my point of view, what we have is an opportunity to create the type of high profile project that people claimed they wanted in all those visioning efforts and studies that have been conducted over the last decade.


From COJ Urban Core Visioning Plan back in 2010.

We have an opportunity to get one of the things that helps make us a bride instead of a bride's maid when it comes to competing for economic development with other communities around the country that already realize the importance of quality-of-live investment. The way these vision plans get incrementally implemented is to hold all future projects proposed in your community to a higher standard than what has been allowed in the past.

So, from my perspective, instead of drawing the line in the sand and chaining myself to a tree in complete opposition (without all info present to make an informed decision), I'm willing to attempt to first work to see if there is a solution that benefits all parties and the city as a whole.  If that solution or compromise doesn't materialize, then you make decisions based on the stack of cards you've been dealt. I typically take this earlier position for most community development issues.
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tufsu1

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Re: Bikes & Pedestrians On The Fuller Warren Bridge?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 12:59:16 PM »
FDOT is using the fact that the Acosta Bridge is "so close" to the Fuller Warren bridge and provides bicycle and pedestrian access to refuse to consider the same for the Fuller Warren project.

I think that argument is pretty weak, but if they want to use it, then turnabout is fair play....

As Lakelander notes, the Acosta Bridge is under capacity, so there should be no need to widen the Fuller Warren bridge.  Imagine if everyone going between San marco and Riverside used the Acosta.  Just count the capacity of both bridges and tell people that are sitting in delays on I-95 to use the Acosta instead.