Author Topic: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City  (Read 10291 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« on: April 08, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City



Edge cities develop at or near freeway intersections and airports and they rarely include heavy industry.  They are large geographically because they are built at automobile scale.  In Jacksonville, the Southside has developed into our first true Edge City.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/757

jeh1980

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 04:28:18 AM »
I go to a church that is in the middle of Deerwood Park. How fitting! 8)

reednavy

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 05:01:05 AM »
The only descent street in that whole area is Gate Parkway IMO, mainly because of the extremely lush amount of foliage and plants. It somewhat reminds of Cumberland Parkway in Vinings, GA, where The Weather Channel is located. Outside of that, its just everyday suburbia in Florida, with an abundance of Sabal Palms, and way too many Date Palms, what are we, Orlando?
Jacksonville: We're not vertically challenged, just horizontally gifted!

Jason

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 09:57:45 AM »
Great article.  Despite the winding roads and limited access of that area, there are still ways to increase infill and density and even promote transit.  First off, more connecting roads and office park access points are needed to diffuse traffic and offer alternative routes.  Second, more mixed use occupancies to "fill in" around the office parks covering up parking lots and addressing the street.  Thrid, more sidewalks.  The area may nevery be truely urban but it can certainly support a much larger population with a little TLC.

thelakelander

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 10:05:18 AM »
Unless, environmentalist approve of developers filling in wetlands, the Southside will never become truely urban.  What we see today is the present day version of what Arlington and the Emerson areas were in the 60s/70s and what Baymeadows was in the 80s.  The best our planners can do is to have a vision of future transportation needs (both road and mass transit) and make sure all future developments are laid out in a manner that makes that long range vision feasible.  This means we have to get past the idea of constructing individual communities and developments that feed all traffic into limited access points on major collector roads. 

Long range, we must develop a grid like road network, choose a mass transit path and make sure higher density activity centers are developed near the proposed station locations.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 10:05:48 AM »
The biggest issue with this area is that the road network is god-awful.  Connecting Gate Parkway to Belfort should help some, but the bottom line is there is one way to get to I-95 from southpoint, and that's Belfort.

I think in the morning, traffic actually flows a bit better because the cars are coming from JTB, and they disperse in the windy roads.  But in the afternoon, all of those windy roads (I think they all have Southpoint in the name BTW) must converge on one, and voila!  Traffic mess.

Driven1

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 10:18:44 AM »
the bottom line is there is one way to get to I-95 from southpoint, and that's Belfort.

southpoint blvd dumps into JTB and then within a 1/4 mile into I-95...that's how i used to get out of southpoint everyday.

Joe

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 11:14:59 AM »
The road network is indeed awful. It's a great case study in why the arterial road system fails at high densities. Just look at the intersection of Gate Parkway and Town Center Blvd. What a mess!!

However, the area still has some potential. With significant investment (but still probably much lower than the JTB/9A interchange) the city could easily use existing right-of-way to create a more connected road system.

Here's something I doodled really quickly (red is a new road. Pink is a bridge or overpass)



With a few small exceptions, this is all along existing easments or property boundaries. Bridges over JTB and swamps/ponds are certainly expensive - but not unreasonable as long as they aren't made interchanges. Again, this is just something I did really quickly. But even some of these more obvious routes could eventually be destroyed by a poorly placed building if the city doesn't plan ahead and preserve its easments

thelakelander

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 11:22:30 AM »
Great graphic Joe.  Just a few of those routes could easily divert and diffuse traffic, thus reducing the gridlock problem at major intersections, such as Gate & Town Center Parkway.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Joe

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 11:32:39 AM »
Thanks, Lakelander. I just hope someone is smart enough to preserve these corridors. Eventually, traffic on Town Center Blvd is going to get so bad that area property owners are going to be desperate for alternatives.

Extending St. Johns Bluff road south - at least far enough to create a couple  "back doors" to Town Center - seems like an obvious choice. However, there's the strong possibility that someone will throw up a strip mall (pun intended) or apartment complex that blocks the right of way.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 11:34:56 AM by Joe »

RiversideGator

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 12:15:22 PM »
Did I mention that I loathe Edge Cities?  This is why I choose to completely opt out.  I live in Riverside/Avondale and work downtown and try to spend most of my money in these areas (including Springfield).  I visit the "Town Center" maybe 2 or 3 times a year.  It really is like a totally different town out there and not one I am familiar with.

CRAIG B

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2008, 12:52:48 PM »
I really like the layout of Jacksonville overall. It is a beautiful city but with a little too much sprawl. Is there a plan to make Jacksonville go up instead of out?
Hey can anyone tell me why they didn't three lane 9A? It would have made more sense to do that, to alleviate traffic also.
On another note in an unrelated question to this section of town. Does anyone know what is happening at Southside and Phillips and will this connect to I-95?
WOULD THE OCEAN BE HIGHER IF THERE WERE NO SPONGES?

CRAIG B

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2008, 12:56:24 PM »
Thanks, Lakelander. I just hope someone is smart enough to preserve these corridors. Eventually, traffic on Town Center Blvd is going to get so bad that area property owners are going to be desperate for alternatives.
I'm still learning how this site works. Sorry for posting just a quote of someone else. I like that you can go back and modify it though.
 Is it true here in Jax that the developers build the roads. And if that is so, don't the city planners make them build to future specs rather than just to whats needed for traffic today?
I know the developers are building the roads in Julington creek and they seem to be larger than needed for now. That would make sense in Jax too. Do I have my facts wrong on the developer thing? Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 12:59:58 PM by CRAIG B »
WOULD THE OCEAN BE HIGHER IF THERE WERE NO SPONGES?

copperfiend

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2008, 12:58:04 PM »
On another note in an unrelated question to this section of town. Does anyone know what is happening at Southside and Phillips and will this connect to I-95?

They are building an entrance to a shopping center. The overpass is to go over the railroad.

thelakelander

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Re: The Southside: Jacksonville's First Edge City
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2008, 01:05:31 PM »
The overpass will not connect to I-95, but it will connect to a new Walmart Supercenter.  Here's a link to information on the proposed development:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/708/122/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali