JTA Skyway's TIGER Grant Application

[Metro Jacksonville]

JTA Skyway's TIGER Grant Application



Metro Jacksonville shares the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's Brooklyn Skyway Extension and Station Development's application for a 2013 TIGER Discretionary Grant.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-aug-jta-skyways-tiger-grant-application

[Captain Zissou]

$20M for this?? Those better be some gold plated elevators. What was the MJ estimate for the no-frills station? $3-5M?

[thelakelander]

There's some major differences though. The MJ concept was envisioned as a "no-frills" temporary at grade platform.  Future expansion down Riverside Avenue would not have been feasible without completely redoing it.  Nevertheless, the Skyway is an automated guideway transit system and intended to only be a downtown circulator, not a citywide transit spine. When you start thinking about penetrating other neighborhoods like Springfield and Riverside, there's cheaper options out there than can be just as effective in moving people and encouraging TOD. The next time someone talks about extending the Skyway to the stadium or under I-95, just keep those numbers in your head and you'll become a fan of considering a streetcar for some of those corridors real quick.

[tufsu1]

As lakelander noted, the MJ proposal was more stripped down.  JTA added many extras to the application as the minimum federal share to be eligible for TIGER is $10 million...and JTA wanted to show it as 50/50 split

[acme54321]

I wonder why they didnt bring it down another block to have it on the west end of the Fuqua development?  Seems like it would be more centalized at not that much more cost.  I'm assuming the bulk of this 20M is the station? 

[Captain Zissou]

Thanks guys. That helps to make sense of that huge price tag. I wasn't aware that the MJ sation wouldn't allow for continuation down riverside ave. I didn't have time to read all 30 pages, but will some of that $20M go towards groud floor retail?? I know it's an oft repeated question on this site, but I think the skyway stations are some of the best candidates for it. News stands and coffee shops would be a great way to enhance the activity at the stations and improve the riders' experience during their commute.

[JeffreyS]

If it isn't going to just be a cheap run some stairs up to the existing platform project why not spend five million more to put the station at unity park?

[cline]

When do they announce the recipients of the awards?

[tufsu1]

^ I believe in late September or early October

[thelakelander]

I've always found it interesting to see what other cities submit for these things. Providence, Rhode Island wants $39 million in TIGER grant money for a modern streetcar:

http://www.gcpvd.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/pvd-streetcar-tiger-application.pdf

[thelakelander]

Last year, Raleigh was awarded $21 million in TIGER IV grant money for their $60 million Union Station project. They're back this year, asking for $22 million more.





http://www.raleighnc.gov/projects/content/PlanUrbanDesign/Articles/UnionStation.html

[JeffreyS]

So if you can build that for 60 million you ought to be able to build our new station at unity park or behind BCBS for 20.

[Jason]

I think the application looks great!

IMO, this is phase one of a two-phase expansion into Brooklyn.  The next station would likely be somewhere around Forest St., like Ock proposed.

[simms3]

The next time someone talks about extending the Skyway to the stadium or under I-95, just keep those numbers in your head and you'll become a fan of considering a streetcar for some of those corridors real quick.

We totally agree here.  This to me seems like not only a waste of taxpayer dollars, but either a way to ensure we lose the grant or never receive a grant again.  The use that the Skyway will get out of this $20M incremental spike (which seems like it's all in the name of building another $20M thing just a quarter mile down the road) is negligible at best.  This could politically kill public transit in Jacksonville.

They are projecting a net increase of 1,250 new daily riders and a net decrease of 208,321 daily vehicle miles in the urban core.  Assuming these 1,250 new riders are riding in and riding out, that 625 new people.  Are we to seriously believe that these 625 new people are driving 333 miles each in the core each day???  How do they calculate these numbers?  See bottom of page 1 of the proposal.

[simms3]

The biggest cost, $5M, is command control systems.  Perhaps integrating this additional spur into the already odd "circulator" route of the system is simply cost prohibitive.  If it costs that much to get the controls and configurations right for this tiny little spur to work into the already built system, perhaps it's time to abandon Skyway and move on to a different system that can be more efficiently and cheaply expanded to serve outlying neighborhoods!

People...what are we thinking about this?  I can't find much logic in the numbers, but what do I know?  I only crunch numbers for real estate transactions...not public transit.