Author Topic: Rail without the FTA: Detroit  (Read 11674 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« on: March 25, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
Rail without the FTA: Detroit



Private-sector money behind a $103 million light-rail transit loop on Detroit's Woodward Avenue could cut 20 years off the planning process of bringing light rail to America's Motor City.  Is anyone in the Mayor's Office and JTA paying attention?

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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/733

jeh1980

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 04:38:50 AM »
Is anyone in the Mayor's Office and JTA paying attention?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/733
[/quote]
Nice article. I'm sure that the JTA and City Hall is listening. Keep talking to them and they will understand.

Jason

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2008, 12:55:06 PM »
Looks like a great plan.  Just curious, how well does the pedestrian access to the stations work with the line being in the median of the roadway versus one side or the other?

Ocklawaha

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 01:04:32 PM »
Jason, traditionally this type of station was very popular, it is called "Safety Island" stations. Access is the old way, WALK - DON'T WALK and RUN!


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Jason

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 01:07:58 PM »
Great for exercize and increasing motor skills..  :)

thelakelander

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2008, 01:09:41 PM »
Canal Street in New Orleans gives you an idea of what the system could look like.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

rgold

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2008, 02:43:38 PM »
:) I would very much like to see this happen. I would use it. I have been to New Orleans many times transporting my kids to visit their Dad who lives in Gray, La. I have used this trolley system on Canal Street. By the way to Lakelander-that's a good picture you took of Canal Stret. I used to stay at the Radison on Canal Street. They say it changed hands and is something else now. I don't go there any more. My boys fly by themselves now. I use the Trolley in the mornings and the skyway in the afternoon. I apreciate what we have, but we are in need of more. Bigger and better systems of transportation.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2008, 04:57:08 PM »
Poor Canal Street, sad photo! Until the bus jerk's got hold on the Crescent City in the 1960's, this was the Worlds only 6 track streetcar line... Talk about grand Junction. I got there in time to see them pulling up track all over town. Funny, the photo reminds me of the death of streetcars. Thank God New Orleans woke up and saved one line and most of their cars. We dropped an A bomb on ours.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 05:08:45 PM »

This photo is from the 1929 streetcar strike. Two strikes became VERY violent, both here and New Orleans the National Guard had to escort the cars. Several of our cars were ambushed with gunfire and rocks. Blood was shed too... Note the 4 track mainline. Somehow, I recall there was 6 tracks at one of the intersections but looking at this I don't see it... bad memory? Or wrong intersection?

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thelakelander

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 05:12:27 PM »
Nice picture.  So since then, automobiles took the entire street over, before they bought back two streetcar tracks a few years ago.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 05:24:23 PM »
Yes, and go back a few years before this shot and you'll see that the track wasn't paved it was landscaped.

Autopia!

However, call it the streetcars revenge....*SIC SEMPER CAROS
*and thus to ALL automobiles...


Ocklawaha

amanlapaz

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 10:01:38 PM »
I believe that the editors of metrojacksonville.com must provide the following clarification:

Except for one, all of the images shown in the article are from the dtogs.com web site, the City of Detroit Department of Transportation's project, which is separate from the privately-funded rail transit project featured in the article.

The image that has got Wayne State University misspelled is the only image that is not attributable to the DDOT project.

Please visit www.dtogs.com to verify this comment.

Thank you in advance to the editors of metrojacksonville.com for issuing the necessary errata.


thelakelander

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2008, 06:42:23 AM »
Thanks, Amanlapaz.

Although the images show the example of what light rail may look like on the same street in the same stretch as the proposed private line, The images are not as important as the focal point of private companies banding together to get the start of a mass transit solution underway.  Nevertheless, as the Detroit plan moves forward we'll certainly make an effort to update this thread with the proper material.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Ocklawaha

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What's good for Detroit is good for who?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2008, 04:16:03 PM »
Welcome to Detroit back in the day. This is the Interurban (long distance - high speed electric railway) system centered on Detroit. You may recall (or just look it up in the updated online references) that General Motors and a Ford division were at the heart of the destruction of over 46 electic rail systems in our country and the busification of America. Yet it seems whats good for Detroit wasn't good for Jacksonville... They sold us on going all bus, Trolleys were "old", "slow", "dangerous" etc... Why we even won the national safety award the year we shut down our trolleys.

   

Now here is where the story gets REALLY WEIRD, those big shots at NATIONAL CITY LINES, AMERICAN CITY LINES, or MOTOR TRANSIT COMPANY (JAX) took their orders from GM, Firestone, White, Phillips and Standard Oil (and God knows I'll jump out the window if I found my uncle Goodrich in that bunch! HA HA) So we have the closing of dozens of area trolley lines, the quick replacement of buses, the counting of coin for future pavement, oil, gas, replacement vehicles and for a time even revenue. So the big interurban in Detroit is in touble, they must wipe out much local service as the villians tighten the rope. Then comes this interesting photo, In the midst of all of this "trolleys are horrible for YOUR CITY talk", GM orders a completely new electric Interurban route to serve some of their new production facilities! WHY? Because trolley freight and commuter service had better speed and capacity! SAY WHAT? Oh and over at FORD... They built the electric Detroit-Toledo Electric Railway. Go figure Jacksonville... Anyone want to buy a Silver Dome?



Here is the interurban freight in Northern Indiana, service to Detroit, GM and FORD! Superior service, "SPEED - SAFETY - COMFORT" Those words were on the side of my first train ride and I'll never forget it or them. Los Angeles to Long Beach in time one could only dream of today. So perhaps "What goes around comes around?"
Detroit may redeem herself yet. I have that copy of Railway Age (if anyone is interested) and it goes FAR beyond Detroit. In fact it speaks about a new age transformation of the Transit World... of casting out decades of stupid planning demons. If you were going to write of the demons of Transit, where would you cast out the first ones? DETROIT!




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thelakelander

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Re: Rail without the FTA: Detroit
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2008, 04:46:08 PM »
All I know, if a city like Detroit can begin to pull itself around with innovative thinking, anything is possible for Jacksonville with the right leadership in place.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali