Author Topic: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today  (Read 14426 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« on: June 17, 2013, 03:05:52 AM »
DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today



It's a project that has become progressively worse as it has gone through the Downtown Design Review Board (DDRB) process, which makes one question why Jacksonville has a DDRB in the first place. Nevertheless, after approving a suburban site plan for Fuqua Development's proposed 53,700-square foot retail center, the DDRB believes the Brooklyn project's facade needs to go back to the drawing board. Here are the renderings. What do you think?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jun-ddrb-workshop-on-brooklyn-retail-project-today

JayBird

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 06:25:00 AM »
Wouldn't the target customer here live within a 5-minute walk of here?  Seems kind of foolish to put so much focus on parking when I would think the type of shops that would locate here are already next to their homes. I mean there is a great Publix within a three minute drive of here.  Is the DDRB appointed by the Mayor?

Also, it looks like this plan prevents the Skyway from ever going further into Five Points, is that true?
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thelakelander

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 06:38:05 AM »
The Skyway will not be extended into Five Points (I-95 pretty much stops that). However, this project doesn't prevent the Skyway from being extended to Forest Street. Also, the target customer base would be from an area much larger than downtown and Brooklyn.  Neither has the population to support the amount of retail this development will provide.
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Dapperdan

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 08:23:13 AM »
Sometimes you have to take what you can get. Fuqua keeps saying they are having to practically beg the grocer to build there and they ( the organic grocer) specified it had to be  in the layout it is in. Do we take the retail, or tell them no, sorry, it needs to be more urban in design and risk them pulling out? This is sort of a tough one.

JeffreyS

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2013, 08:39:43 AM »
Say no it needs to be more Urban. There is enough going on in the area something else will come along.
Lenny Smash

civil42806

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 08:54:11 AM »
Funny thing is first thing I noticed was a lot of mercedes and corvettes in the parking lot.  Look at all the convertibles!

Dapperdan

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 09:12:24 AM »
Funny thing is first thing I noticed was a lot of mercedes and corvettes in the parking lot.  Look at all the convertibles!

With the estimated rent prices for 220, I think the same people should be able to afford them . =)

thelakelander

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 09:18:39 AM »
Sometimes you have to take what you can get. Fuqua keeps saying they are having to practically beg the grocer to build there and they ( the organic grocer) specified it had to be  in the layout it is in. Do we take the retail, or tell them no, sorry, it needs to be more urban in design and risk them pulling out? This is sort of a tough one.

That's a cop out. Speaking from years of experience in retail site design, you could have had a better pedestrian scale layout and still accommodated the retailer's site criteria and design requirements......and it would have probably saved Fuqua some cash and gave them more interior surface parking.

A good example is the Publix project right down the street at Riverside Avenue and Margaret Street.  However, that ship has sailed since the site plan is already approved.  Personally, I don't think decorating the facade is going to make much of a difference outside of raising the cost of the project for Fuqua.

My hope is that JTA wins some TIGER grant money to extend the Skyway because it will at least shield some of this from the street.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 09:20:31 AM by thelakelander »
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fieldafm

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 09:34:19 AM »
Sometimes you have to take what you can get. Fuqua keeps saying they are having to practically beg the grocer to build there and they ( the organic grocer) specified it had to be  in the layout it is in. Do we take the retail, or tell them no, sorry, it needs to be more urban in design and risk them pulling out? This is sort of a tough one.

I don't agree.

First off, this development has highway access thanks to the nice new Forrest Street exit ramps completed a few years ago. 

Secondly, the demographics for this project draw directly from Riverside/Avondale/San Marco.  Try putting this site layout in San Marco or Riverside and see how easy it would be to get done.

Additionally, as Lakelander states... it would actually be beneficial to the developer to make simple adjustments to the site plan in order to be more contextually sensitive to a pedestrian scale environmnet.  For one, you would get more parking spaces (and they already applied for, and was denied, a request to increase the project's parking maximum). 

Lastly, I'll leave you with a real clear philosophy difference. 
Mayor Brown has instructed OED to 'get this done no matter what'. 

To contrast that, former Pittsburgh Mayor Tom Murphy was in town during One Spark.  He mentioned several times that if a developer didn't conform to the type of environment they wanted to create for downtown Pittsburgh, they simply would not approve the project.  He completely turned around that city, region and in particular their downtown.  Maybe we should take that kind of advice.

Here is a letter he wrote about a massive roadway project, contrast that with Mayor Brown's style and you'll see two distinct forms of 'leadership':

Quote
Commissioner James Dodaro
Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission
March 27, 1996

Dear Commissioner Dodaro:

I would like to thank you and your staff for taking the time to brief myself, my staff, and Councilmen Jim Ferlo and Bob O’Connor on the status of the Mon/Fayette Transportation Project. The City fully recognizes the potential significance of this project not only in the revitalization of the Mon Valley but also in the continued vitality and growth of the City and region as a whole. While I appreciate the hard work and thorough analysis your staff has done on this project, I would like to reiterate what I consider four crucial issues that need to be addressed before the City can fully endorse the project.

•Riverfront Development (Glenwood Bridge to City Line): The riverfronts and Nine Mile Run represent two of this City’s most valuable assets. In no way can this project compromise these assets. The highway must be shown to be compatible with, if not advantageous to, both residential development in Nine Mile Run and the development of park and recreational uses along the riverfront from the Glenwood Bridge to the City line.
•Financial Feasibility: Through our ongoing internal planning and development efforts and work with SPRPC a number of City and regional transportation priorities have been identified. However, as you know, funds for advancing these priorities are becoming increasingly scarce. Consequently, funds for pursuing the Mon/Fayette and Southern Beltway projects must come from sources independent of the regular federal and state funds allocated to this region.
•Highway Design and Amenities: Given the physical scale and presence of this project, it must be shown to be a visual asset to it environment by using sensitive design treatments to minimize its presence and impacts and enhance its natural and physical environments.
•Community Support: In order for the City to be able to fully support this project, the concerns and needs of our neighborhoods must be addressed in a meaningful and thorough manner. The City’s ultimate position will be based in part on this project’s community implications and public deposition.
I believe these conditions are consistent with the City’s current position as understood by your staff. We look forward to working with your staff and insuring not only the project’s feasibility but also its supportability and contribution to the well-being of the City, Mon Valley and entire metropolitan region. Again thank you for your time and efforts.

Sincerely,
Tom Murphy, Mayor
City of Pittsburgh


See the difference?


Quote
However, that ship has sailed since the site plan is already approved.  Personally, I don't think decorating the facade is going to make much of a difference outside of raising the cost of the project for Fuqua.

Completey agree.  The site plan is the problem, not the facade. 

Why the DDRB did not choose to better address the site plan (which would have had very little impact on the pro forma cost of the project), but would make the developer change up the facade treatment (which does have an impact on cost) is really backwards.

mbwright

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 09:41:15 AM »
I don't think the DDRB knows what they are doing.

Josh

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 09:41:36 AM »
What a joke.

And I'm not talking about the fact their parking lot render contains two $500k SLR McLarens.

urbaknight

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 10:53:40 AM »
The Skyway will not be extended into Five Points (I-95 pretty much stops that). However, this project doesn't prevent the Skyway from being extended to Forest Street. Also, the target customer base would be from an area much larger than downtown and Brooklyn.  Neither has the population to support the amount of retail this development will provide.


Isn't I-95 high enough that the Skyway can just go underneath fo it?

JayBird

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 11:00:58 AM »
The Skyway will not be extended into Five Points (I-95 pretty much stops that). However, this project doesn't prevent the Skyway from being extended to Forest Street. Also, the target customer base would be from an area much larger than downtown and Brooklyn.  Neither has the population to support the amount of retail this development will provide.


Isn't I-95 high enough that the Skyway can just go underneath fo it?


Well I initially like the plan to eventually run it to Annie Lytle so I-95 wouldn't be issue.  Hopefully by then JTA will be operating with sense.

Okay I was thinking this would be convenience type stores and restaurants for the Brooklyn residents and Riverside Ave office workers
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thelakelander

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 11:02:38 AM »
The Skyway will not be extended into Five Points (I-95 pretty much stops that). However, this project doesn't prevent the Skyway from being extended to Forest Street. Also, the target customer base would be from an area much larger than downtown and Brooklyn.  Neither has the population to support the amount of retail this development will provide.

Isn't I-95 high enough that the Skyway can just go underneath fo it?

Yes, the expressway is high enough but you can't get the Skyway under there without blocking access to perpendicular streets and adjacent properties. With that said, I'm not aware of any real plans to extend the Skyway south of Forest Street.
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Duvaltopia

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Re: DDRB Workshop on Brooklyn Retail Project Today
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 11:08:30 AM »
Mayor Brown presents….another really big parking lot.