Author Topic: Khan interested in developing shipyards  (Read 153379 times)

Adam White

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #615 on: March 13, 2018, 12:04:13 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.

“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

jaxnyc79

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #616 on: March 13, 2018, 12:26:25 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.



The Millionaire Mojo Class:).  I suppose when there's no verbal basis for retort, Gif it. Interestingly, that's the same eye roll of the Amazon selection committee when considering COJ's RFP response.

Tacachale

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #617 on: March 13, 2018, 12:32:37 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.



The Millionaire Mojo Class:).  I suppose when there's no verbal basis for retort, Gif it. Interestingly, that's the same eye roll of the Amazon selection committee when considering COJ's RFP response.

It wasn't intended to "silence" you. It was intended to rib you for saying obnoxious things. You might try to be less thin skinned.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #618 on: March 13, 2018, 01:54:13 PM »
I can't even tell what you guys are talking about anymore. Wasn't the subject increasing urban density with piecemeal projects because large development plans haven't come to fruition? Why don't we talk about that?

Tacachale

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #619 on: March 13, 2018, 02:12:04 PM »
I can't even tell what you guys are talking about anymore. Wasn't the subject increasing urban density with piecemeal projects because large development plans haven't come to fruition? Why don't we talk about that?

Well, I think the argument was organized incentives for small projects, rather than a piecemeal approach (of either large or small projects). In general, the low hanging fruit in the Downtown Core will have a bigger impact than a super project on the periphery - if we get enough of the fruit. Things have definitely improved in the last 5 years just with the incremental changes we've made.

One issue there is that some projects are worth it regardless of the impact on Downtown. For instance, filling in Brooklyn whether it's small or big projects is good in its own right, because it fills in empty lots and adds new units to the urban core. But it won't have a huge impact on the Downtown Core right off the bat. Similarly, funding for Shands and expanding Baptist are good for Jax even if they don't have a huge impact on Downtown or urban development. So I don't think it's productive to talk *only* about the downtown core.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

jaxnyc79

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #620 on: March 13, 2018, 07:37:46 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.



The Millionaire Mojo Class:).  I suppose when there's no verbal basis for retort, Gif it. Interestingly, that's the same eye roll of the Amazon selection committee when considering COJ's RFP response.

It wasn't intended to "silence" you. It was intended to rib you for saying obnoxious things. You might try to be less thin skinned.

“Don’t be so obnoxious” says the guy dropping a massive eye-rolling Gif in the midst of a text thread

Tacachale

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #621 on: March 13, 2018, 08:43:48 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.



The Millionaire Mojo Class:).  I suppose when there's no verbal basis for retort, Gif it. Interestingly, that's the same eye roll of the Amazon selection committee when considering COJ's RFP response.

It wasn't intended to "silence" you. It was intended to rib you for saying obnoxious things. You might try to be less thin skinned.

“Don’t be so obnoxious” says the guy dropping a massive eye-rolling Gif in the midst of a text thread

It’s amusing that gifs posted in good fun upset you this much, considering they were in response to posts where you claimed that everyone else was an idiot, and that poor and elderly folks are literally worth less than affluent yuppies.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

heights unknown

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #622 on: March 13, 2018, 08:53:59 PM »
Now now girls.
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ProjectMaximus

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #623 on: March 13, 2018, 10:27:36 PM »
jaxnyc, do you know the fellow known as simms? maybe you're related?  :o

I appreciate your contributions to this forum, I think what happened in this thread is you went a bit far and offered nothing constructive. Pretty sure you and taca would otherwise agree on many of your concerns and critiques.

Tacachale

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #624 on: March 13, 2018, 10:39:12 PM »
jaxnyc, do you know the fellow known as simms? maybe you're related?  :o

I appreciate your contributions to this forum, I think what happened in this thread is you went a bit far and offered nothing constructive. Pretty sure you and taca would otherwise agree on many of your concerns and critiques.

I think we would! Thanks Max. Ok, I’m officially going back to my corner and taking the gif with me.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

jaxnyc79

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #625 on: March 14, 2018, 09:12:32 PM »
Yeah my only issue with that number is that it is a random benchmark made up by chamber types that has no real relationship to urban vibrancy. A good well designed and integrated 5k will trump a badly placed 10k. The area around FSCJ Deerwood is a good example. There's around 10k living in all those multifamily developments. The land area is less than what what the DIA recognizes as downtown but it's not pedestrian scale. On the other hand, DT Lakeland has less than 5k and must compete with everything else in Central Florida but still holds its own.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

I feel like I'm going to be using this gif a lot.



You can have a field day with it:).  It's not going to silence me.  You're not that important.



The Millionaire Mojo Class:).  I suppose when there's no verbal basis for retort, Gif it. Interestingly, that's the same eye roll of the Amazon selection committee when considering COJ's RFP response.

It wasn't intended to "silence" you. It was intended to rib you for saying obnoxious things. You might try to be less thin skinned.

“Don’t be so obnoxious” says the guy dropping a massive eye-rolling Gif in the midst of a text thread

It’s amusing that gifs posted in good fun upset you this much, considering they were in response to posts where you claimed that everyone else was an idiot, and that poor and elderly folks are literally worth less than affluent yuppies.

Are you serious?  Where did I claim everyone else is an idiot?  And where did I saw the poor and elderly are worth less?  Your interpretations are so absurd as to barely merit response.  Someone asked the question about commercial viability of downtown and street-level storefront vibrancy.  I believe in social spending on housing for the poor, and if downtown is to be used for that purpose, then that's fine.  But senior housing and housing for the poor are unlikely to drive the street-level retail and commercial vibrancy that a number of downtown enthusiasts seek.  The role and right levels of social spending are reasonable subjects of discussion, both in general and as part of core city renewal efforts, and certainly don't warrant eye-rolls and gifs by a bunch of message thread bullies who only want complete consensus and can't disagree as reasoned adults.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #626 on: March 14, 2018, 09:16:47 PM »
jaxnyc, do you know the fellow known as simms? maybe you're related?  :o

I appreciate your contributions to this forum, I think what happened in this thread is you went a bit far and offered nothing constructive. Pretty sure you and taca would otherwise agree on many of your concerns and critiques.

projectmaximus, I'm not on this thread for you nor for your agreement.  I'm on this thread with a point of view, and if you disagree, you can challenge with the power of your rhetoric and critical reasoning.  Gifs are an expression of shortcomings in argumentation and verbal reasoning.  We're all offering our diagnostic results on why downtown Jax is flailing.  No one can have absolute confidence on the right answers.  The idea of a message thread or virtual forum is to serve as a laboratory of different ideas...a bit of verbal and cognitive experimentation.  If you don't like an idea, then move on. 

ProjectMaximus

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #627 on: March 14, 2018, 10:57:17 PM »
jaxnyc, do you know the fellow known as simms? maybe you're related?  :o

I appreciate your contributions to this forum, I think what happened in this thread is you went a bit far and offered nothing constructive. Pretty sure you and taca would otherwise agree on many of your concerns and critiques.

projectmaximus, I'm not on this thread for you nor for your agreement.  I'm on this thread with a point of view, and if you disagree, you can challenge with the power of your rhetoric and critical reasoning.  Gifs are an expression of shortcomings in argumentation and verbal reasoning.  We're all offering our diagnostic results on why downtown Jax is flailing.  No one can have absolute confidence on the right answers.  The idea of a message thread or virtual forum is to serve as a laboratory of different ideas...a bit of verbal and cognitive experimentation.  If you don't like an idea, then move on. 

I dont have any issues with you or your posts. Just seemed like you were getting a bit agitated and I was trying to help you step back and examine what was happening. No big deal. That said, I was referring to this post...to be fair I'm not sure there's a lot of serious diagnoses present.

Downtown Jax is a dump, and the Jax area is fairly dull and generic.  Some places have been fully ensconced in the ideas of the enlightenment and human progress, and other places and peoples are sitting around and waiting for progress to fail because they believe that the only salvation is in the after-life.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #628 on: March 15, 2018, 11:14:16 AM »
jaxnyc, do you know the fellow known as simms? maybe you're related?  :o

I appreciate your contributions to this forum, I think what happened in this thread is you went a bit far and offered nothing constructive. Pretty sure you and taca would otherwise agree on many of your concerns and critiques.

projectmaximus, I'm not on this thread for you nor for your agreement.  I'm on this thread with a point of view, and if you disagree, you can challenge with the power of your rhetoric and critical reasoning.  Gifs are an expression of shortcomings in argumentation and verbal reasoning.  We're all offering our diagnostic results on why downtown Jax is flailing.  No one can have absolute confidence on the right answers.  The idea of a message thread or virtual forum is to serve as a laboratory of different ideas...a bit of verbal and cognitive experimentation.  If you don't like an idea, then move on. 

I dont have any issues with you or your posts. Just seemed like you were getting a bit agitated and I was trying to help you step back and examine what was happening. No big deal. That said, I was referring to this post...to be fair I'm not sure there's a lot of serious diagnoses present.

Downtown Jax is a dump, and the Jax area is fairly dull and generic.  Some places have been fully ensconced in the ideas of the enlightenment and human progress, and other places and peoples are sitting around and waiting for progress to fail because they believe that the only salvation is in the after-life.

First off, the GIF was in response to my post agreeing with Lakelander that the 10k critical mass number is a bit arbitrary.  I made the point that one must look beyond the population count, and consider the discretionary purchasing power of that count to assess the prospects of street-level retail and commercial vitality.

I have family in Jax and find many parts of Jax to be rather interesting and scenic.  Having said that, Downtown Jax, in my view, is a dump, and hopefully the acceptance of that harsh reality can spur a bunch of constituencies into action.  Yes, there's a nice-looking lot here and there or small buds of renewal that are springing, but net-net, the current overall impression an outsider is left with is to get the hell out of downtown as quickly as possible and to question why you were there in the first place.  Just because downtown Jax is a dump doesn't mean the city throws its hands up in surrender, but rather should commit all efforts and attention to making it work.  Unfortunately, as nice and scenic as other parts of the metro may be, a dumpy downtown is likely crippling the soul of the region, and keeping it from its economic and social potential.  To make this even more complex, however, is my view that the city must be a champion for downtown while finding as many non-cash ways of spurring growth as possible (like reducing red tape and reducing embedded incentivizes for urban sprawl).  Government grants and cash outlays often result in unfairly picking winners and losers and distorting markets.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 04:46:12 PM by jaxnyc79 »

Tacachale

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Re: Khan interested in developing shipyards
« Reply #629 on: March 15, 2018, 12:05:41 PM »
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!


projectmaximus, I'm not on this thread for you nor for your agreement.  I'm on this thread with a point of view, and if you disagree, you can challenge with the power of your rhetoric and critical reasoning.  Gifs are an expression of shortcomings in argumentation and verbal reasoning.  We're all offering our diagnostic results on why downtown Jax is flailing.  No one can have absolute confidence on the right answers.  The idea of a message thread or virtual forum is to serve as a laboratory of different ideas...a bit of verbal and cognitive experimentation.  If you don't like an idea, then move on.



First off, the GIF was in response to my post agreeing with Lakelander that the 10k critical mass number is a bit arbitrary.  I made the point that one must look beyond the population count, and consider the discretionary purchasing power of that count to assess the prospects of street-level retail and commercial vitality.

I posted the gif twice. Both times were cases were in a spirit of humor and gentle ribbing, meant to make light of the fact that the preceding posts said some obnoxious things and didn't have much to engage with:

Downtown Jax is a dump, and the Jax area is fairly dull and generic.  Some places have been fully ensconced in the ideas of the enlightenment and human progress, and other places and peoples are sitting around and waiting for progress to fail because they believe that the only salvation is in the after-life.

Should probably go one step further and attach a demographic profile to the number.  5k residences, educated, gainfully employed, above-average discretionary income, 20s to 50s, means a lot more to downtown's prospects and sidewalk vibrancy than 10k residences in senior housing, halfway houses, and low-income.

Reaction gifs are just a way of communicating a thought or feeling that would have been carried by an expression or gesture if we could all see each other. A bumptious and condescending comment is less likely to receive an engaged response than an eye roll, whether it's in real life or online. It would appear that you didn't mean your comments to come off as poorly as they did. In that case, it should be clear by now that the solution is to adjust your rhetoric if you want a genuine discussion. Just as you're not here for us and our agreement, we're not here to read obnoxious comments without responding/making light of them.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?