Author Topic: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial  (Read 6596 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« on: March 11, 2013, 03:01:02 AM »
Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial



Operated by the National Park Service, Fort Caroline National Memorial memorializes the short-lived French presence in sixteenth century Florida. Here you will find stories of exploration, survival, religious disputes, territorial battles, and first contact between American Indians and Europeans. In addition, Fort Caroline National Memorial hosts the Timucuan Preserve Visitor Center.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-mar-exploring-fort-caroline-national-memorial

ben says

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 08:44:15 AM »
Very cool
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fsujax

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 08:52:28 AM »
Wouldnt it be cool if there were boat tours that left from downtown and gave historic tours up and down the river from Ft Caroline to Mandarin. If only I had the capital.

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 10:25:27 AM »
What a great idea, fsujax.
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spuwho

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 10:36:16 AM »
The remnants of the old Spanish Fort were noted in a log of a river trader who was traveling the St Johns River post Civil War. This so far, is the last known mention of the fort being "seen".  The river was dredged for commerce shortly after and it is thought that what was left of the fort was destroyed at that time.  Some books claim the original location of the French and Spanish forts is actually 20-30 yards north of the current monument, which would place it in the actual river today.

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Overstreet

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 10:47:09 AM »
The shell mounds over in the Roosevelt area were made by the Timucuans leaving their oyster shells  on the ground after dinner and building upon it. Over on the bluff the shell is as thick as 40 ft.  They lived there a long time.

Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »
This really is a treasure for the area. I was particularly impressed when I started looking through the guest book at the museum and saw from all over the U.S. and even a few foreign countries. That huge effigy is pretty cool, too.

spuwho

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 10:17:16 PM »
I know a few people who are descendants of the French Huguenots who ended up in South Africa. When I mention that they also settled in "Le Florida" they are completely unaware.

The only thing left of their culture there is their exceptional wine making and the last names.

Imagine what kind of culture Jacksonville could have had if some of that had rubbed off here?

Most of the remnant French culture in the US resides in New Orleans, St Louis, Illinois, and along the lower Mississippi.

Tacachale

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 10:55:19 PM »
^And New England.

As for what things could have been like, it's fun to play what if, but there's certainly no guarantee that the French would have lasted even if they prevailed over the Spanish in 1565. It's hard to imagine the Spanish letting go of Florida, which they had been trying to colonize for over 40 years. And the English started making their early attempts 20 years later. There would have been more conflict.

But if Laudonniere and Ribault had won out, it's possible that the French could have forged better relations with the southern Florida Indians than the Spanish, who never extended far south of Lake George for long. Even if so, the early colonial era was incredibly tenuous, and before the 18th century there was never a time that any European colony in North America wasn't in danger of being wiped out by the Indians as well as natural factors. Who knows what could have befallen them. Plus, even in Laudonniere's time there was talk of moving the colony to South Carolina. In fact, the Spanish tried to do exactly that until it was finally brought low in 1587 by a glorious series of Indian uprisings.

As for winemaking, if you've ever had Florida wine you know why that wouldn't have worked.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

spuwho

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 11:09:51 PM »
^And New England.

As for what things could have been like, it's fun to play what if, but there's certainly no guarantee that the French would have lasted even if they prevailed over the Spanish in 1565. It's hard to imagine the Spanish letting go of Florida, which they had been trying to colonize for over 40 years. And the English started making their early attempts 20 years later. There would have been more conflict.

But if Laudonniere and Ribault had won out, it's possible that the French could have forged better relations with the southern Florida Indians than the Spanish, who never extended far south of Lake George for long. Even if so, the early colonial era was incredibly tenuous, and before the 18th century there was never a time that any European colony in North America wasn't in danger of being wiped out by the Indians as well as natural factors. Who knows what could have befallen them. Plus, even in Laudonniere's time there was talk of moving the colony to South Carolina. In fact, the Spanish tried to do exactly that until it was finally brought low in 1587 by a glorious series of Indian uprisings.

As for winemaking, if you've ever had Florida wine you know why that wouldn't have worked.

Agreed, eventually they would have been squeezed out being situated between the English in the north and Spanish in the south. Clearly it wasn't meant to be, hurricane wipes out fleet, Spanish general wipes our forces and your fort.  The Spanish intolerance for protestants was well known at the time and quite extensive in their holdings.

The French almost had the upper hand in the new world. Surrounding the English by unifying the St. Laurence/Great Lakes frontier with the Lower Mississippi and by doing it keeping Spanish Florida split from the rest of Spanish holdings in the southwest.

But I digress.

I agree with an earlier poster, we have a wealth of history right here in our front and back yards. I am surprised we don't leverage it more.

Tacachale

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 11:17:32 PM »
^I agree 100%.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Timkin

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 12:53:16 AM »
Awesome article about an attraction in my neighborhood .  Great job !!  :)

BridgeTroll

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 10:42:03 AM »
I know a few people who are descendants of the French Huguenots who ended up in South Africa. When I mention that they also settled in "Le Florida" they are completely unaware.

The only thing left of their culture there is their exceptional wine making and the last names.

Imagine what kind of culture Jacksonville could have had if some of that had rubbed off here?

Most of the remnant French culture in the US resides in New Orleans, St Louis, Illinois, and along the lower Mississippi.

The French played a large role in settling and exploring the upper midwest... The names Marquette, Jolliette, and Nicolet are pretty famous explorers of the region...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wisconsin_in_1718.jpg

Quote
French exploration
 
The first known European to enter Wisconsin was a French coureur des bois Jean Nicolet.[2] In 1634, Samuel de Champlain, governor of New France, gave Nicolet the task of searching for a water route to China through North America. Accompanied by seven Huron Indian guides, Nicolet left New France and canoed through Lake Huron and Lake Superior, and then became the first European to enter Lake Michigan. Nicolet proceeded to row into Green Bay and came ashore near the present-day city of Green Bay, Wisconsin. When Nicolet reached land, he was greeted by several Ho-Chunk living in the area. Nicolet remained with the Ho-Chunk at Green Bay through the winter and established a trading post there.
 
The next major expedition into Wisconsin was that of Father Jacques Marquette and Louis Jolliet in 1673. After hearing rumors from Indians telling of the existence of the Mississippi River, Marquette and Joliet set out from St. Ignace, in what is now Michigan, and entered the Fox River at Green Bay. They canoed up the Fox until they reached the river’s westernmost point, and then portaged, or carried their boats, to the nearby Wisconsin River, where they resumed canoeing downstream to the Mississippi River. Marquette and Joliet reached the Mississippi near what is now Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin in June, 1673.
 
[edit] French colonization

Wisconsin in 1718, Guillaume de L'Isle map, approximate state area highlighted.
French colonists were interested primarily in the fur trade, and established only a few small outposts. The first, at Green Bay, was called simply “La Baye” by the French, and was started with Nicolet’s original trading post in 1634. A Jesuit mission was established at Green Bay in 1671, and a fort was built at the settlement in 1717.
 
Nicolas Perrot, French commander of the west, established Fort St. Nicholas at Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin in May, 1685, near the southwest end of the Fox-Wisconsin Waterway. Perrot also built a fort on the shores of Lake Pepin called Fort St. Antoine in 1686,[3] and a second fort, called Fort Perrot, on an island on Lake Peppin shortly after. In 1727, Fort Beauharnois was constructed on what is now the Minnesota side of Lake Pepin to replace the two previous forts. A fort and a Jesuit mission were also built on the shores of Lake Superior at La Pointe, in present day Wisconsin, in 1693 and operated until 1698. A second fort was built on the same site in 1718 and operated until 1759.[4] These were not military posts, but rather small storehouses for furs.
 
During the French colonial period, the first black people came to Wisconsin. The first record of a black person comes from 1725, when a black slave was killed along with four French men in a Native American raid on Green Bay. Other French fur traders and military personnel brought slaves with them to Wisconsin later in 1700s.
 
None of the French posts had permanent settlers; fur traders and missionaries simply visited them from time to time to conduct business.



In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

ScreenwriterinJax

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2013, 06:55:53 PM »
Have no idea why people are injecting French history in the north into this section.This is all about JACKSONVILLE area history and the impact various cultures had on the area. I am writing a screenplay about the events at Fort Caroline 1562-1568 and it will be marketed to movie production studios in Hollywood,California.

blizz01

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Re: Exploring Fort Caroline National Memorial
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 10:52:55 PM »
Say it isn't so.....this is like finding out that you were adopted & your foster parents withheld your true identity.....

Quote
Fort Caroline, a long-sought fort built by the French in 1564, had long been thought to have been built near modern-day Jacksonville in Florida, but researchers say its actual site has been discovered 70 miles to the north -- in Georgia.
The site is on an island at the mouth of the Altamaha River, two miles southeast of the city of Darien, they said.

Scholars say ancient Fort Caroline nowhere near Jacksonville

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2014/02/21/Oldest-fortified-settlement-in-North-America-discovered-in-Georgia/UPI-58611393023726/
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 10:56:44 PM by blizz01 »