Author Topic: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville  (Read 5060 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« on: December 26, 2012, 03:14:11 AM »
Understanding Transit in Jacksonville



From the Times-Union and City Councilmen to the average Jacksonville resident, understanding mass transit technologies remains a mystery.  Here is an overdue review on mass transit technologies and how they may potentially play a role in the development of Jacksonville's future.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-dec-understanding-transit-in-jacksonville

Mathew1056

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 06:56:04 AM »
Great article.
If the Skyway expanded to meet some threshold of viability I think that public sentiment would shift and a larger Skyway system would be possible. Is it just me, or are the three largest residential structures on the Southbank horribly integrated with the existing Riverplace and King Station? I know of a few people who live there and work downtown. They would rather use their car. Building beach condos with the a scenic view of downtown is not fostering urban development. You have to make transportation easy to use with clear public access points.

tufsu1

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 09:04:32 AM »
great article Ennis...people in many cities have had difficulty grasping the various types of rail transit....in fact, some folks in Tampa voted down their transit referendum because they confused it with the high speed rail proposed to connect Tampa with Orlando.

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 10:34:02 AM »
Great article.  I really was curious about how many of these modes of transportation are different. 

Ocklawaha

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 11:18:43 AM »
great article Ennis...people in many cities have had difficulty grasping the various types of rail transit....in fact, some folks in Tampa voted down their transit referendum because they confused it with the high speed rail proposed to connect Tampa with Orlando.

It's not the public's fault, it's the media types who keep saying stupid crap like: "Amtrak Light-Rail On The Florida East Coast," or "All Aboard Florida Commuter Rail," or "Study shows Jacksonville can expand it's trolley network with new tracks," or "Charlotte's Blue Line Bullet Train."

One can easily get the idea that most of the kids in journalism school have just stumbled out of the tobacco barn.

BackinJax05

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 11:17:37 PM »
From looking at the JTA maps I have another idea: Build a bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana Rd/103rd Street. Build it with light rail/streetcar access. (I think a bridge here has already been proposed & rejected)

OR build a light rail/streetcar ONLY bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana. (Yeah, I know that would never happen - but one can dream)

BackinJax05

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 11:19:08 PM »
great article Ennis...people in many cities have had difficulty grasping the various types of rail transit....in fact, some folks in Tampa voted down their transit referendum because they confused it with the high speed rail proposed to connect Tampa with Orlando.

It's not the public's fault, it's the media types who keep saying stupid crap like: "Amtrak Light-Rail On The Florida East Coast," or "All Aboard Florida Commuter Rail," or "Study shows Jacksonville can expand it's trolley network with new tracks," or "Charlotte's Blue Line Bullet Train."

One can easily get the idea that most of the kids in journalism school have just stumbled out of the tobacco barn.

These are the same idiots who call the Jaguars the JagWIRES, and Tampa - Tampa Bay, FL.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 12:57:07 AM »
From looking at the JTA maps I have another idea: Build a bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana Rd/103rd Street. Build it with light rail/streetcar access. (I think a bridge here has already been proposed & rejected)

OR build a light rail/streetcar ONLY bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana. (Yeah, I know that would never happen - but one can dream)

Actually that idea has been around since the Buckman went under construction. It never went much beyond that because San Jose and Ortega home owners threatened to eat the first born of child of anyone caught promoting the idea.

Don't know how many know, but the MLK was supposed to cross the river North of the Talleyrand Terminals and hook up with Merrill Road in Arlington. Such a span would have done irreparable damage to JAXPORT.

A more recent idea was another river crossing at Liberty Street linking up with Kings Road in the Southbank.

Spence

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 12:23:11 PM »
Mr.Mann, could you tell us all more about what uses (modes) a new crossing may serve at the south end of Liberty crossing to Kings Ave.?
Would a new span touch down on the south bank between the surface lot between the curve in Riverplace Blvd and the Chart House?

Seems NOTHING would have to be demolished!
Even a ferry transporting a heritage Streetcar could be wonderful!

Tell us all more here now won't you please?
Why is the world full of humans a lot less friendly than we ought to be?

tufsu1

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 12:58:37 PM »
Mr.Mann, could you tell us all more about what uses (modes) a new crossing may serve at the south end of Liberty crossing to Kings Ave.?
Would a new span touch down on the south bank between the surface lot between the curve in Riverplace Blvd and the Chart House?

don't worry...it won't happen

Ocklawaha

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 03:19:55 PM »
Mr.Mann, could you tell us all more about what uses (modes) a new crossing may serve at the south end of Liberty crossing to Kings Ave.?
Would a new span touch down on the south bank between the surface lot between the curve in Riverplace Blvd and the Chart House?

Seems NOTHING would have to be demolished!
Even a ferry transporting a heritage Streetcar could be wonderful!

Tell us all more here now won't you please?

This bridge MIGHT have happened had the building boom roared on for another 5 years or so. A 70 floor skyscraper on the north along with The Shipyards would have provided critical mass. As TUFSU1 as said, the bridge won't happen, at least not for a long, long, time.

I share your nostalgia for streetcars (interurbans actually) on ferry boats, but I believe that era has come and gone. In any case here is a photo of the car floats operated by the Sacramento Northern Railway. The SN quit the passenger business in 1941 and the ferries quit running in 1954. Here is a photo of that incredible operation, the little building to the right of the train was the 'new' lunch room.


cline

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 03:25:14 PM »
Ock,

Do you know of an old RR river crossing that went from the old FEC spur on the southbank (adjacent to the JEA site) and crossed the river connecting to where the old tracks were around the Maxwell House plant?

tufsu1

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 04:31:58 PM »
^ or was it just a barge, like the one shown above

BackinJax05

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 05:35:53 PM »
From looking at the JTA maps I have another idea: Build a bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana Rd/103rd Street. Build it with light rail/streetcar access. (I think a bridge here has already been proposed & rejected)

OR build a light rail/streetcar ONLY bridge connecting JTB & Timuquana. (Yeah, I know that would never happen - but one can dream)

Actually that idea has been around since the Buckman went under construction. It never went much beyond that because San Jose and Ortega home owners threatened to eat the first born of child of anyone caught promoting the idea.

Don't know how many know, but the MLK was supposed to cross the river North of the Talleyrand Terminals and hook up with Merrill Road in Arlington. Such a span would have done irreparable damage to JAXPORT.

A more recent idea was another river crossing at Liberty Street linking up with Kings Road in the Southbank.

Yes I know about the 20th Street Bridge idea. If it had been built, the south end of my neighborhood would have been used for the Westbound approach (from Arlington).

Eating 1stborn or not, another bridge is needed between the Fuller Warren and Buckman - with light rail/streetcar access built into the design. I would dare say the design, construction, and buying right of way through iminent domain would cost less than the 1st Coast Outer Beltway we're being "blessed" with, and a better use of money.

spuwho

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Re: Understanding Transit in Jacksonville
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2012, 06:09:53 PM »

Yes I know about the 20th Street Bridge idea. If it had been built, the south end of my neighborhood would have been used for the Westbound approach (from Arlington).

Eating 1stborn or not, another bridge is needed between the Fuller Warren and Buckman - with light rail/streetcar access built into the design. I would dare say the design, construction, and buying right of way through iminent domain would cost less than the 1st Coast Outer Beltway we're being "blessed" with, and a better use of money.

Based on the surrounding neighborhoods a bridge between Timuquana and JTB isn't practical. However a tunnel would be. However, we get back to that old problem of cost. Seattle and New York both have major transit projects going down using newer boring technology. Water tables aren't an issue due to the depth of the bore. Either way that option is mega, mega bucks.