Author Topic: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You  (Read 28806 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« on: February 25, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You



The vote to place Red Light Cameras at ten of Jacksonville’s busiest intersection passed through the city council unanimously. The cameras are scheduled to be installed by July of 2008.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/717

JeffreyS

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 09:27:53 AM »
Are there going to be lights to run at butler and 9A?
Lenny Smash

Charles Hunter

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 09:47:13 AM »
JefferyS - there is a signal there now, but when the interchange is completed in a year (or less), the signal will go away. 
Which leads to my question - are the locations in the ordinance?  If so, because of the above, it is flawed just because of the 9A / JTB location.  If the ordinance does not specify locations, who selects them?  Also, who will pay the private property owners to rent pole space for some of these locations?  The State doesn't allow red-light cameras on state roads - so the cameras will have to be on City or private property.  Does this come out of the out-of-town company's costs before the City's share?  And how good a view of license plates will these off-site cameras have?

I do think the National Motorist Association is painting drivers with a bit of a Pollyanna brush:
Quote
Motorists do not casually drive through red lights. More likely, they do not see a given traffic light because they are distracted, impaired, or unfamiliar with their surroundings. Even the most flagrant of red-light violators will not drive blithely into a crowded intersection, against the light. Putting cameras on poles and taking pictures will not stop these kinds of accidents.

There are better alternatives to cameras.
If intersection controls are properly engineered, installed, and operated, there will be very few red-light violations.


Most motorists do not enter an intersection where the cross street traffic is already going.  But motorists do casually try to "extend the green" by being one of the three, four, or five cars that go through the "just turned" red.  The lights along State and Union are synchronized, but people still run reds there, too.  And, if drivers are that distracted, maybe  they need to get a ticket or two.

And, yes, I am very concerned about an increase in rear-end accidents (see above).

KenFSU

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 09:58:56 AM »
"Will Red Light Cameras increase intersection safety?"

If you're the type of person/city who puts blind faith in such questionable forms of information as "studies" and "research" and "statistics" and "historical precedent," than no. The cameras will actually increase accidents at these intersections. If you're the type of person who would rather trust more reasonable sources of information, such as a good "gut feeling", a fancy line graph or scattergram from a lobbyist, or perhaps a colorful cartoon depicting large sacks of money, then yes. The cameras make perfect sense for Jacksonville.

"Will the Jacksonville City Council be willing to review the safety results at the targeted intersections to decide whether the program has been effective and should be continued?"

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Once these things go up, they will only continue to spread. Accidents be damned.

It's a moneygrab, plain and simple, and if ever seriously challenged, I doubt it would be able to hold up in court.


Lunican

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 10:35:20 AM »
The red light camera lobby seems to like to include a video of a car running a red light and crashing as part of their "success" story, but that seems like a major failure to me. It didn't do a thing to prevent the accident. It's just on video now.

midnightblackrx

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 12:27:38 PM »
You know it's a money grabber when the manufacturer of the cams only charge a percentage of profits from tickets. 


DemocraticNole

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 09:32:06 PM »
These cameras will never make it up without a change in Florida law. Currently, red light cameras are not legal under Florida law. This is due to the statutory requirement that a police officer be a witness to a traffic violation. From reading Gov. Crist's comments in the past, it doesn't sound like they are going to approve a law change. So if the City of Jacksonville is dumb enough to install these cameras and ticket someone, they will be paying those people back once a lawsuit is initiated.

Lunican

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 09:34:55 PM »
The city can install them and issue tickets that are equivalent to parking tickets, but they can not issue traffic violations. Also, the cameras can not be on FDOT right of way so they will need to find a spot off the roadway to mount them.

hybern8

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 04:18:27 PM »
     I am fine with the red light cameras, but I do not think the City's Civil Engineers are really doing their job.  In my opinion the red light camera is only another method of shifting blame away from the city and saying let's blame the motorist.   Sure it will slow some down and make them think twice. The City of Jacksonville is growing and these cameras are not the cure.  We need the Civil Engineers to step outside of the box and find better solutions for moving traffic and keep it moving safely.
     I ride my bicycle just about every day and it would be fair it is really unsafe to ride a bicycle through some of the intersections in the Southside area.  I complained to a JSO Deputy one day about not being able to cross an intersection.  The Deputy's response:  "Find a different route."  Motorist are not stopping when the pedestrian walk light changes to white.  Then only 5 seconds later the pedestrian walk light changes to flashing red.  After a total of 10 Seconds the pedestrian walk light is red.  We are talking about a 4 lane road.  Most people cannot cross the intersection in 10 seconds especially when traffic will not stop or yield to pedestrians or bicyclist.
     I am not expert in this subject matter but I can tell you somebody is not doing their job.
     I have one question for the City of Jacksonville and the answer had better be "Yes!":  Are all city and state employees and vehicles subject to fines as well? 
     I have seen several city vehicles including JSO off duty Deputies run the lights.    I have no problem with Fire and Ambulance equipment running the lights, but off duty deputies and all civil employees should not be exempt.   If they are exempt they are violating ethics by abusing their position and power.  The city and state should be keeping track of who has possession of each vehicle.  If they cannot find the person responsible then they should force the responsible agency to pay up anyway.  Fair is fair.
     Civil Engineers, no offense but you can do better than this.  If you need to travel to other cities to see what they are doing then just do it and bill the City.  I like riding my bicycle in Jacksonville but I hate crossing your intersections.  Please improve this.  It is pathetic.

jp

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 01:49:38 PM »
On weekdays drivers run the red light at University Blvd. & Philips Highway at least once every five minutes. Why no camera at that intersection?

gatorback

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008, 05:52:53 PM »
Austin's 2nd. RLC when on line this past week I'm pretty sure.  Funny that they are letting the public do the rolling (california Stops).  If you don't slow down to a "Walking pace" you get the ticket turning right.  Wow.  What is Jacksonville's policy?  They need to state it.
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

Midway ®

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2008, 09:23:49 AM »
     I am fine with the red light cameras, but I do not think the City's Civil Engineers are really doing their job.  In my opinion the red light camera is only another method of shifting blame away from the city and saying let's blame the motorist.   Sure it will slow some down and make them think twice. The City of Jacksonville is growing and these cameras are not the cure.  We need the Civil Engineers to step outside of the box and find better solutions for moving traffic and keep it moving safely.
     I ride my bicycle just about every day and it would be fair it is really unsafe to ride a bicycle through some of the intersections in the Southside area.  I complained to a JSO Deputy one day about not being able to cross an intersection.  The Deputy's response:  "Find a different route."  Motorist are not stopping when the pedestrian walk light changes to white.  Then only 5 seconds later the pedestrian walk light changes to flashing red.  After a total of 10 Seconds the pedestrian walk light is red.  We are talking about a 4 lane road.  Most people cannot cross the intersection in 10 seconds especially when traffic will not stop or yield to pedestrians or bicyclist.
     I am not expert in this subject matter but I can tell you somebody is not doing their job.
     I have one question for the City of Jacksonville and the answer had better be "Yes!":  Are all city and state employees and vehicles subject to fines as well? 
     I have seen several city vehicles including JSO off duty Deputies run the lights.    I have no problem with Fire and Ambulance equipment running the lights, but off duty deputies and all civil employees should not be exempt.   If they are exempt they are violating ethics by abusing their position and power.  The city and state should be keeping track of who has possession of each vehicle.  If they cannot find the person responsible then they should force the responsible agency to pay up anyway.  Fair is fair.
     Civil Engineers, no offense but you can do better than this.  If you need to travel to other cities to see what they are doing then just do it and bill the City.  I like riding my bicycle in Jacksonville but I hate crossing your intersections.  Please improve this.  It is pathetic.


They are not civil engineers. They are known as Traffic Engineers, and I doubt that COJ has any on staff. They probably just hire consulting traffic engineering firms when the intersections are initially designed and then forget about it, unless there are an inordinate number of traffic related deaths at a particular location.

gatorback

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2008, 09:28:22 AM »
No they are more then that.  Why don't you have somebody explain it to you  because you apparently cannot read.

No, i don't know how to read. Would you read it to me?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 09:31:59 AM by gatorback »
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

RiversideGator

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2008, 04:04:58 PM »
They are not civil engineers. They are known as Traffic Engineers, and I doubt that COJ has any on staff. They probably just hire consulting traffic engineering firms when the intersections are initially designed and then forget about it, unless there are an inordinate number of traffic related deaths at a particular location.

Are you a traffic engineer now?   ???

Midway ®

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Re: Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2008, 10:13:18 PM »
See your national politics thread.

You two try to be normal in public.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 10:17:02 PM by Midway »