Author Topic: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.  (Read 25946 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« on: February 05, 2008, 02:10:00 PM »
The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.

The Courthouse is Dead.Blockbuster new revelations from City Council Insiders claim the Mayor has given the Greenlight to killing the project.  According to revelations from inside sources at City Hall, and verified by two other political insiders, the Mayor's Office has been quietly contacting Council Members to tell them that if the Courthouse isnt built, it won't hurt his feelings.  This signifies an ignonomous end to a project which was slightly overbudget overbudget from the beginning, but whose costs have skyrocketed as time and inflation have adjusted the costs for building a downtown courthouse upwards of several hundred million dollars.  It was always a controversial project,  said one insider from the previous administration,  It would only work if it was combined with the Better Jacksonville Plan   Andy Johnson, a very vocal bitter opponent of the BJP agreed.  There's no way the public would have voted to build this project, thats why they had to promise everything on earth to anybody who would listen in order to get it passed.   There's nothing on earth to keep them from simply NOT building the courthouse, The only legally binding restriction (until they decide its no longer legally binding) is that they cannot spend that money on anything else.  However they can simply decide to no build the project and pay the bond off sooner.  If they want to kill it, the mayor has the power to do it, and I guess thats what is happening.  Still another official reminded metrojacksonville that tens of millions have already been spent on the project, and that if the project had simply been built at the onset, then hundreds of millions would have already been saved, and it would already be open and functioning. There is no doubt that the price of building is NOT going to decrease if they delay.  Does anyone seriously think the Courthouse will be CHEAPER to build in five years?   John Peyton is no stranger to construction or associated costs, no one knows better than he does about rising costs and the deflating dollar.   Stagnation, confusion and delay based on lack of leadership have already cost the taxpayers tens of millions on this project, not to mention the loss of several of downtowns more historic blocks, preventing any possible development on those properties for five years now. If administrations and mayors are chiefly remembered by the landmarks and buildings they leave behind, then this one will be remembered for castrating the downtown andleaving a seven block crater in the middle of the city.  Stephen Darereportossiper

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/709

jeh1980

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2008, 02:40:30 PM »
Wow, that's not good. I'm very sorry to see this article if this is really true :(. I don't believe the part about "castrating the downtown". That sounded stupid! We all due respect. Maybe now we can build some big office projects or a larger than life shopping mall to take the place of that huge piece of land...hopefully. Don't lose heart and Keep the faith! 8)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 02:44:42 PM by jeh1980 »

thelakelander

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2008, 02:59:50 PM »
I hope we aren't resigned to leaving the courthouse where it is.  Nevertheless, if they aren't going to do it lets hope a good portion of the $263 million currently set aside goes into improving the core.  For example, we could turn around the entire Hogans Creek area for a fraction of the number.

As for the moonscape, I'm with jeh1980.  Sell it to Simon or Ben Carter aka Indianapolis and Circle Centre.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 03:10:20 PM by stephendare »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

vicupstate

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2008, 03:10:10 PM »
I hope we aren't refined to leaving the courthouse where it is.  Nevertheless, if they aren't going to do it lets hope a good portion of the $263 million currently set aside goes into improving the core.  For example, we could turn around the entire Hogans Creek area for a fraction of the number.

As for the moonscape, I'm with jeh1980.  Sell it to Simon or Ben Carter aka Indianapolis and Circle Centre.

I have more to say on the Courthouse subject, but as for a shopping mall DT, no disrespect, but put down the crack pipe.   

Indy subsidized that mall with tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars, and it was in Simon's HQ city. Enclosed malls are dying out, and getting one in DT Jax is as likely as Madonna being the next President. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

thelakelander

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2008, 03:26:42 PM »
Oh, I wasn't advocating the construction of an "enclosed mall".  These developers also have developed urban retail/entertainment complexes in the past.  A few things that come to mind include Uptown Charlotte's Epicenter (under construction), Miami's Mary Brickell Village and Louisville's 4th Street Live. 

Fourth Street Live



Nevetheless, if there is not going to be a courthouse going on that property, I'd advocate the city getting rid of that property as quick as possible.  Mall, museums, entertainment District, urban college campus, affordable housing, farmer's market, etc. Just about anything would be a benefit than just holding onto the site and doing nothing.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 03:42:47 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2008, 03:50:47 PM »
Wow - if this ends up happening, excellent message to send to the youth of Jacksonville.

"If at first you don't succeed, throw in the towel"

You know, he shouldn't have been complaining about Delaney in the first place.  If it weren't for Delaney, he would have to still build a courthouse, and wouldn't have $211 million to start with.

Not too many cities have a voter-approved tax increase to help pay for things like a courthouse.

lynnegh

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2008, 04:55:25 PM »
I'll bet anybody who reads this that within a year, that entire area will be surface level parking.  Any takers?

It would be a really nice site to create a mini- Central Park affair, but given our ACLU-dictated lack of policy for getting rid of squatters, such a park would merely become a magnet for the homeless.  Sigh...

Of course, the suggestion of development such as Louisville's 4th Street is a pipe dream of major proportions.  Actually, affordable housing makes a lot of sense, which means, of course, that it's the least likely possible thing to happen.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 05:01:54 PM by lynnegh »

JeffreyS

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2008, 05:11:22 PM »
The Judges are the villains of the courthouse failure.  They couldn't dream of sharing a bathroom with the other employees of the courthouse.  They couldn't hear of every judge not having a dedicated courtroom to use twice a week. They wouldn't be caught dead in chambers that did not resemble a suite at the Ritz.  We can build a courthouse so much cheaper but we had to say no to this runaway train first. We pandered to the judges  for whom the budget was no concern too long.
Lenny Smash

JeffreyS

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2008, 05:24:20 PM »
The Mayor is not blameless certainly the courthouse delay and cost increases because of the delay are his administrations fault.  The Judges however are the ones who made this a P***ing contest about not giving in on anything. 
Lenny Smash

jerry cornwell

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »
ok ive buckled my flak jacket, you can go ahead and hit me with your best shots........ this is great!!!!
i hope its true!
Democracy is TERRIBLE!  But its the best we got!  W.S. Churchill

jerry cornwell

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2008, 07:50:46 PM »
lets make a go cart track out of the site! miniature nascar renditions!
Democracy is TERRIBLE!  But its the best we got!  W.S. Churchill

Driven1

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2008, 08:50:19 PM »
good report Dare.  i think i would end it like this...


"If administrations and mayors are chiefly remembered by the landmarks, buildings and programs they leave behind, then Peyton's legacy will be as void and barren as the 7 city blocks cleared for the failed new courthouse."

Serious question here....  has there ever been a mayor as lacking in leadership in Jacksonville as the current thrown-sitter?  I've only been here 10 years, so only know Delaney and Peyton.

tufsu1

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2008, 08:55:41 PM »
I wouldn't count this as "dead" yet....at the end of the day, everyone can agree that new/additional courthouse space is needed

this could be a ploy to get the judges to back down their wish list....it could also just be bad information from Dare and his "sources"

Lunican

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2008, 10:32:51 PM »
According to what went on at the special city council meeting on this topic I thought that if no action was taken to stop or proceed with a combined civil and criminal courthouse, that construction on the criminal only courthouse would start in June.

That is how it was explained to the council by the city lawyer.

Hippodamus

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Re: The Courthouse is as Good as Dead.
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2008, 10:39:03 PM »
I agree with tufsu1.  Who are your insiders at city council, the caterers?  As I said in my introduction, we have a classic example of this famous Greek saying, "Passing from mouth to mouth it was learned by a thousand, and by the time it came to be heard by the king he learned of how a cow laid an egg!"  
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