Author Topic: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval  (Read 26265 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« on: September 06, 2012, 03:12:42 AM »
Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval



After being initially rejected with a bland building design, Parador Partners will go before the Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) to have their revised plan conceptually approved. Metro Jacksonville has the renderings and wants to know what you think should happen today and why.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-sep-retail-less-parador-parking-garage-up-for-ddrb-appoval-

I-10east

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 03:37:40 AM »
It looks great, alot better than the original IMO. It has a nice lil' funky urban flair to it, with some retail added. It definitely doesn't look like the typical downtown Jacksonville parking garage. Looks like a best case scenario to me.

vicupstate

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 05:33:57 AM »
Is there the possibility that at some point a building could go on top of this garage?  It is such a prime space, I hate to see it be so limited 
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dougskiles

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 05:54:57 AM »
Quote
Considering the sum of money taxpayers will be putting into this questionable investment, is there something wrong with telling Parador to comply with the minimum design standards instead of applying for a "unenforceable" deviation that will only result in permanent dead space at street level?

There is something wrong with not enforcing the minimum standards.  Particularly when there is public money on the table.  There is no doubt that Parador needs dedicated private parking to fill up the adjacent office building.  However, we don't need the public parking.  There is an oversupply of public parking downtown.

Quote
Now that you've had a chance to review the revised project's design, what do you think should happen today and why?

The DDRB should reject the proposal.  Either the retail gets built at the initial phase, OR the size of the garage is reduced to what they need for the office building, the garage is placed such that a taller and deeper building can be constructed along the street edges and the $3.5 million is taken out of the deal.

acme54321

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 06:48:49 AM »
Folks, what we have here is lipstick on a pig.

Actionville

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 07:23:23 AM »
Reject

JFman00

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 07:26:09 AM »
If they don't include the street-level retail now, they'll never add it on.

Adam W

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 07:31:01 AM »
I see "future retail" = no retail.

thelakelander

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 07:52:17 AM »
It looks great, alot better than the original IMO. It has a nice lil' funky urban flair to it, with some retail added. It definitely doesn't look like the typical downtown Jacksonville parking garage. Looks like a best case scenario to me.

If its going to be built and COJ is going to pay for nearly half of it, then the best case scenario to me would be for COJ/DDRB to remain firm on having this thing built to the minimum design standards, which means including street level retail. 

If the site were in an odd ball, off the beaten path location, I could see the argument for not doing any retail.  However, given the location, this really needs to be something at ground level that can help stimulate pedestrian connectivity and interactivity between the riverfront and Hemming Plaza district.  Complying with the minimum standards in place does that.  The way the proposal has been written up, retail will never be built or at a minimum, you're looking at several years of dead space on that block. 

I'd also suggest shifting the garage closer to the Suntrust Building or designing the garage's first floor to accommodate some retail.  Depths of 38' aren't ideal for retail and will only strengthen the idea that downtown can't support retail.  At a minimum, we should be striving for at least 65'-70' of retail depth.  Depending on how the retail design is handled, that would be a prime site for something like a CVS or Walgreens right now. 

With that in mind, regardless of what it may look like, I think 5/3 Bank's parking garage overlooking Fountain Square in downtown Cincinnati is a good example to follow for having a parking garage at a high profile downtown location. Its core purpose is to park cars but at street level, its one of the more interactive pedestrian scale environments in that downtown.  When it comes down to it, these are the things that can either work to stimulate vibrancy or kill it.








« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 07:55:09 AM by thelakelander »
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Intuition Ale Works

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 07:59:01 AM »
Where did this $3.5 million come from to help pay for the garage?
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thelakelander

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 08:21:36 AM »
Humana paid it to the City when they failed to build dedicated parking for the Landing years ago, which brings up another question (although this is outside of the DDRB's arena).

The City believes giving Parador the $3.5 million will relieve them on their dedicated parking obligation for the Landing, that stems back to the days when Rouse owned it.  However, last time it was reported, Sleiman didn't agree.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-09-13/story/jacksonville-landing-says-35-million-grant-parking-garage-not-enough

So are we giving the $3.5 million to another party, and not really settling the Landing obligation?
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Overstreet

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 08:30:32 AM »
Looks like the King Street garage with facade changes.  Costs have lowered due to the economy but given the "glue and glitter" it looks like $6 to $9 million to me.

Tacachale

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 08:33:58 AM »
This is just awful. There's no excuse for this, unfortunately it sounds like the deal is done.
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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 08:43:01 AM »
Absolutely NO! The revision appears to be the original building with some crape paper and cardboard glued to the sides. What we have here isn't simple lipstick on a pig... in this case the lipstick is on the wrong end!

We have shown that the garages needn't look like some stoic institution. We have also shown that not just Hogan Street is effected, but the entire frontage on Bay, and most on Water Street, so adding retail 'later' on just one side doesn't cut it. This building as planned will create another vast black hole along downtown streets which once bustled with life.

We may be getting the long hoped for college downtown, and the streetcar could happen if the council gets off the mobility plan moratorium. Why not get off the vague 'future date' and plan for success rather then a reactionary glue and crayons cosmetic makeover.

Jason

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Re: Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 08:45:37 AM »
I just can't believe we're having to fight the construction of a flipping parking garage on one of this city's prime downtown properties!!  There HAS to be something/somewhere better.  There HAS to be another way.  That property can single handedly make or break the CBD's street level vibrancy and the beauty of our skyline and they're wanting to cover it up with a friggin PARKING GARAGE!?!?!?!?.