Author Topic: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?  (Read 20750 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« on: January 31, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?



Have we been sold a bill of goods by the city?  Is the renaissance of downtown over before it even began?  Apparently some downtown business owners think so.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/705

copperfiend

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 08:35:46 AM »
Does anybody in City Hall even care? It's frustrating going to other cities across the country and seeing the progress they have made. I have real doubts anything will ever happen here.

NJ to JAX WHAT DID I DO?

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 08:47:47 AM »
That lady has a lot of stuff....seems so unorganized though.....how does she know where things are? 

Again the homeless are not the problem.  Every city has homeless.  The problem is the lack of things going on, lack of businesses open, cost of rent for businesses, no markets to buy food (therefore making it unliveable), extremely unnecessary sprawl of the rest of the city, empty streets, etc, etc. 

It was funny how Nicky G's was only open for about a month.  That was laughable. 

stephenc

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 09:09:24 AM »
What has been the solution for the homeless problem in other cities?

thelakelander

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 09:16:19 AM »
I hear ya NJ to JAX.  There's several issues that need to be dealt with, but most of it still revolves around a lack of connectivity and critical mass.  Everything is too isolated which causes pedestrian traffic to spreadout, giving a stronger impression of abandonment.  Without connectivity, its going to be difficult to pull in a market or for a start up business to justify paying premium dollars to lease substandard space in a substandard atmosphere.  Market wise, we have to get back to rates that allow moms & pops to easily come in, as opposed to artificially inflating rates and believing we can pull in a Macy's, movie theater or something like that.

As far as Nicky G's, I think poor service is killing it more than anything else.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 09:22:29 AM »
What has been the solution for the homeless problem in other cities?

There's several ways cities have dealt with these issues, but most still have vagrants wondering the streets.  The difference is they don't stand out as much because the cities have been successful at being able to pull residents and businesses in those areas.  Ramped up law enforcement, properly lighting the streets and buildings and not making downtown the epicenter of the homeless shelter industry are other ways these things have been dealt with. 

Lake Eola Park - Downtown Orlando

when you make rules to enhance the image, enforce them.

For example, in Orlando, most of downtown's shelters are located west of I-4 on the edge of the core.  Unfortunately, its done a lot of damage on Parramore, but vagrants don't litter the parks in the heart of the core's vibrant activities.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 10:02:14 AM »
good point Lake....the reality is every city has a homeless problem (Jax may have a bigger problem than most)....and its just going to get worse with a national recession and passage of Amendment 1

Really people...if local governments cut back on staff and/or support for other causes, what will happen?  Remember most of that $ was being spent in OUR community!

downtowngirl

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 10:37:06 AM »
What are the retail rents downtown? I've heard conflicting stories.

second_pancake

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 10:37:54 AM »
The city really does not have any rules around what the homeless can/can not do.  I have a lot behind my house that is owned by a private resident in Riverside.  I rented the house last year and got a call from the tenant that they had to call the fire department because the fence was on fire.  When they went in the back to put it out, they found a homeless man that had set-up camp right behind the fence in my backyard, on the vacant lot.  He was trying to make a fire to keep warm and almost burned my fence down.  He was out there for a long time (don't get me started on why the renters didn't bring it to my attention earlier), had a set of blinds hanging from a tree limb for privacy and everything.  Anyway, I called the police to have the man removed and they didn't even know the property was privately owned.  They kept insisting it was owned by the city and because of that, "the man has every right to remain on city property" and there wasn't "anything they could do about it."  They said they could ask him to leave, but he'd just come right back.  I bitched enough to get them to do their research and find the true owner of the property.  When it was brought to his attention, he had the homeless man and his belongings removed immediately and the man never came back.  So, the moral of the story here is, you can do whatever the hell you want to on city property and nothing will happen to you, but if it's on private property, you'll get your butt handed to you.  With that, what incentive is there for any homeless person in our city to take advantage of the many shelters we have?  If you could sleep in the middle of a park on a nice bench without a million other people around you, wouldn't you do it?  If you could crawl into a neglected, city-owned building and camp out without anyone bothering you, wouldn't you rather do that than be at a shelter?  It's like having a free house compliments of the city of Jacksonville.

The city needs to be proactive instead of re-active.  Don't sit around and wait for something to happen to do something.  Go out there, get off your butts, and DO something BEFORE anything happens.
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walter

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 11:08:30 AM »
"going down the tubes"

ha, thats funny.  Hey folks, this is Jacksontucky, lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed all the time. 

Heck I don't mind the wait at Nicky G's, I get that its very complicated to make a pizza in Jacksontucky, so the wait is understandable.  Firehouse subs, crap anyway good riddence, eat at Blue Boys its way better. 

The homeless problem, nah has to be a myth... according to the TU recently  "Jacksonville's homeless population has increased by 75.3 percent since 2000 - when the annual count was first conducted."  How about we propose to turn downtown Jacksontucky into one big homeless shelter like "Escape from New York", that would solve the problem of these suburban types not really wanting anything to do with downtown Jax.  Heck now that the beaches are busing in their homeless thanks to the BOA grant and the new "homeless shuttle", downtown Jax really isn't much more than a homeless shelter anyway isn't it? 

I get that Jacksontuckians hate their downtown.  They see it as a blight on their otherwise beautiful city.  If you look at it from their grey tinted lenses you'll be able to see what they've seen for a long time, a lump of coal that wouldn't turn into a diamond even if you did shove it up Cameron Fry's ass!

stephenc

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 01:40:57 PM »
What would setting up more laws against the homeless do? More fines? Guess what.. there homeless. Throw them in jail? The jail is already busting at the seems and then they would be a tax burden on the citizens more than they are now. Obvisously the shelters arent working. They're in one day and out the next. The only solution is each homeless person making a decision to make a change in there life and making an effort to better themselves. We can throw money and ideas at this issue but until the homeless society decides for themselves they want to change, nothing will happen.

second_pancake

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2008, 03:29:57 PM »
What would setting up more laws against the homeless do? More fines? Guess what.. there homeless. Throw them in jail? The jail is already busting at the seems and then they would be a tax burden on the citizens more than they are now. Obvisously the shelters arent working. They're in one day and out the next. The only solution is each homeless person making a decision to make a change in there life and making an effort to better themselves. We can throw money and ideas at this issue but until the homeless society decides for themselves they want to change, nothing will happen.

I agree to an extent.  No, you can't set fines or put them in jail, but you can trot them back down to the shelter.  If it happens enough, they'll realize there's no point in trying to squat in someone's yard or city property...that is if they're of a mental capacity to understand what's happening.  Point is, while there isn't much recourse to really 'punish' them, we can't just concede our public places, businesses and homes to them either.
"What objectivity and the study of philosophy requires is not an 'open mind,' but an active mind - a mind able and eagerly willing to examine ideas, but to examine them criticially."

downtownparks

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2008, 04:04:27 PM »
Pancake, your post actually points to one of the big problems this city has.

First, why in the hell would a city hold on to a residential lot, and second, how is that considered "public property"?

We have almost two dozen lots in Springfield owned by the city. The city NEVER mows or upkeeps these lots unless someone goes to the media. The truly funny thing is, they get cited all the time by code enforcement... Figure that one out.

This city owns, and mis-manages property all over the city, but the biggest problems are here downtown. The Pocket Park is a great example. Rather than put it back on the tax rolls AND increase your workforce housing numbers, you leave it under ownership by the city, and let it further blight Main St. A 700K homeless park.

This city needs to have an enema so the leadership can pull its collective head from its arse and realize that 20 lots in Springfield would be better for both the city and the neighbors of those lots if they were turned over to private developers with the caveat that it be developed within three years.

Anyway, I know I am all over the place with this post, its just so frustrating to watch.

Midway ®

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2008, 04:50:28 PM »

 How about we propose to turn downtown Jacksontucky into one big homeless shelter like "Escape from New York", that would solve the problem of these suburban types not really wanting anything to do with downtown Jax.  Heck now that the beaches are busing in their homeless thanks to the BOA grant and the new "homeless shuttle", downtown Jax really isn't much more than a homeless shelter anyway isn't it? 


How much could it cost to install a "Gitmo" style Camp Delta fence around the downtown? Certainly less than $400 Million dollars!

Problem solved.

Thanks for the innovative idea.

I'm sure that Mayor Peyton's office is actively soliciting ideas, and this one is probably better than anything they have come up with so far (not for lack of trying, I'm certain).

Midway ®

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Re: Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2008, 04:58:17 PM »
Prime directives of the Peyton administration;

1. Do no thing which shall not enrich either me, or members of my family, or which does not promote the interests of other power brokers and captains of business within our fishbowl so similarly situated..

2. See #1.