Author Topic: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen  (Read 7043 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« on: March 16, 2012, 03:47:26 AM »
Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen



In a new series, Metro Jacksonville takes a step back to listen to, promote, and discuss the editorials, personal accounts, and vocal opinions of some of the key players in the preservation and progression of our community. This week, New Town Success Zone Director Irvin PeDro Cohen explains the state of public education in Jacksonville and Florida.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-mar-guest-series-irvin-pedro-cohen

Garden guy

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 07:32:04 AM »
The educational system has not failed the students ..parents have failed their children. If parents were truly responsible for their creation we'd not be dealing with this.

buckethead

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 09:24:51 AM »
You wacky right wingers....

JeffreyS

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 09:32:53 AM »
Ok Mr. Cohen any suggestions for change to the system or is this just a complaint.  How would you like the system to look and how should we gauge student success? While I agree too much emphasis has been placed on standardized testing students need to be prepared for college. Even if at fifteen they do not have an interest in college they need to be prepared for that path.  If you want to see me and President Obama as snobs on this feel free.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 09:52:15 AM by JeffreyS »
Lenny Smash

jaxlore

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 09:38:55 AM »
Good article. Education in this country is a mess. You can't expect uneducated parents to consider education a priority of their children, so until you find a way to address the problem as a whole blaming the parent’s does nothing to fix a problem which devastates a society.

bill

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 11:26:12 AM »
Unions continue to destroy everything they control

John P

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »
Schools are schools. What has changed are the children entering the schools and how they are supported and taught at home.

IamAmerican

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 02:10:52 PM »
@john p, I think I see what you are trying to say and I think it's ridiculous. Blaming failing schools on failing homes only allows schools to continue to fail...because there isn't much a school can do to fix a student's home. Even if it is the case that a student's home based support is the reason for educational failures, that only means our educational system it going to need some real innovation from educational leaders to save the day. They (WE) are still responsible to educate even when the variables have changed! We expect the same from our police, our military, even our garbage pick-up services...and anything else government related.

Saying, "schools are schools" negates the giant organizational processes that create our current education system. Schools are not elemental, unchanging natural resources. We're not talking about coal or oil, here. We are talking about man made systems that are failing. You can say, "coal is coal" it's how we are processing the coal that has changed...but you can't say that for schools (and make sense).



« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 02:18:53 PM by IamAmerican »

Garden guy

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 05:26:50 PM »
@john p, I think I see what you are trying to say and I think it's ridiculous. Blaming failing schools on failing homes only allows schools to continue to fail...because there isn't much a school can do to fix a student's home. Even if it is the case that a student's home based support is the reason for educational failures, that only means our educational system it going to need some real innovation from educational leaders to save the day. They (WE) are still responsible to educate even when the variables have changed! We expect the same from our police, our military, even our garbage pick-up services...and anything else government related.

Saying, "schools are schools" negates the giant organizational processes that create our current education system. Schools are not elemental, unchanging natural resources. We're not talking about coal or oil, here. We are talking about man made systems that are failing. You can say, "coal is coal" it's how we are processing the coal that has changed...but you can't say that for schools (and make sense).
Scools are only failing because students scores suck...thats the students fault...keep on kissing the ass of these children and this will continue.

IamAmerican

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2012, 09:15:23 PM »
Leave it to the column on education to bring out the most ignorant comments I have read on Metro Jacksonville, ever.

I'm only hoping that Garden Guy was being sarcastic..."schools are only failing because students scores suck..." No one is talking about kissing the student's ass. Whether our schools are kissing ass or beating it...they are failing. To blame the recipients (students) in those institutions is foolish and again, negates the responsibility of our educational system. Maybe, Garden Guy, the problem is that we kiss the students ass...guess what? That's our fault. I'm not sure how you can read what I wrote and respond with your comment. Except, that you (like me) had a public school education. In which case, I'll kiss your ass and say it's not your fault.

I keep thinking of military analogies...and it is somewhat applicable in terms of the excuses we make. If we heard a military officer say our military is failing (if it was failing - let's stay on topic) because 1)the soldiers come from bad homes 2) because they are lazy 3) because veterans groups have too much power 4) because of MTv, hip hop and punk rock...none of those excuses would be acceptable to any of us. The role of the military is to make sure that the people in the military are awesome.

We have institutions of learning all across this country that house students for 8 hours a day and their primary prerogative is to educate. Then you (and many others) have  the audacity to blame the families, the students, or pop culture (for that matter).

There is no room for blaming externalities. It is the institution that is failing. We should fully expect the leaders in the public system to grow a set of balls/breast (equal opportunity, here) take responsibility and fix the problem. You and I have to be the people that force the internal changes before we willingly blame everything but the system that is literally creating serious failures in education. 

A response like:

"Schools are only failing because students scores suck...thats the students fault...keep on kissing the ass of these children and this will continue..."

Is exactly what we don't need to finally become an educational system that, well, educates. I mean, wow...I'm kinda in a state of shock. You're blaming the fruit (the students) for what the tree (the schools) are producing.

buckethead

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 07:36:07 AM »
It seems like someone has hijacked GG's account.

While not renown for highly sophisticated discussion, this take seems to be on the extreme opposite side of the spectrum where GG usually resides.

GG, you ok?

Will send in Bruce Willis if you can get a message to me!

Garden guy

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2012, 08:04:22 AM »
It seems like someone has hijacked GG's account.

While not renown for highly sophisticated discussion, this take seems to be on the extreme opposite side of the spectrum where GG usually resides.

GG, you ok?

Will send in Bruce Willis if you can get a message to me!
Im great and thanks for asking..ive just watched as parents allow their babies rule the roost and i ave many many teacher friends..the nightmares i have heard about these kissass parents is rediculous. And i appreciate your compliments..what a great neighbor you must be...

Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 01:32:50 PM »
I'm one of those educators on the frontlines. I have spent my whole career working at elementary schools in some of the poorest areas of Jacksonville. I really think that there is some validity to what you are saying. The current culture of high-stakes testing and ever-changing standards has not done much to improve the education of our children.

Students are at the mercy of a single week's worth of testing to decide their educational fate despite the fact that studies show that a child's cognitive development is not a simple linear progression. Studies also show that retaining students often has little benefit for most children. There may be a short term positive effect, but over time children who are retained in an earlier grade fall behind again. So for example if they repeat 3rd grade they may do better in 3rd grade the second time through, but come 4th and 5th grade the learning deficits return. And while it does little to help, being retained makes it somewhere between 5-11 times more likely that a child will drop out of school. Yet, many students face mandatory retention for failing state tests. That's a decision that needs to be carefully weighed out by parents and teachers. on an individual basis. So my question is how does some paper pusher in Tallahasee or DC know what's better for our children than parents or teachers?

All of the government regulation implies that the state has more of an interest in our children than their families! Effectively, the state has taken authority away from the primary stakeholders, or, as I like to say, they have taken families out of the game. Accountability is very important, but the teacher should be most accountable to families that they serve. I mean who cares more about your child, you or the government? There has to be a better way that we can equip parents with the information that they need to be able to make informed decisions about their child's education.

Jaxson

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 02:35:52 AM »
Contrary to what a previous poster claims, unions do not run the roost in a state that has been under one-party rule since Jeb Bush was governor.  The state leadership, however, in a power grab to subvert the power of local governments has used unfunded mandates and draconian testing to shift to cost of education to the counties. 
John Louis Meeks, Jr.

ronchamblin

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Re: Guest Series: Irvin PeDro Cohen
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 02:36:13 AM »
Post by Cohen:

“Schools are no longer centers of intellectual curiosity as they may have once been. In less than 15 years schools have been transformed into test mills that process young people into lines that ultimate suggest prison or college and do very little to prepare them for anything in between. Matter of fact in a recent paper I wrote regarding high stakes testing I pointed out that within the last 10 years (1997-2007) the economics of the testing industry and all of the spin offs have gone from a $260 million dollar a year industry to an $700 million dollar a year industry (Supovitz, 2009).”

Yesterday, I talked with a retired Douglas Anderson teacher.  He stated that some at DA are leaving “teaching”, not wishing to engage the tons of paperwork and the excessive, structured testing.  This was interesting because I’ve been saying for years that the paperwork I’ve heard teachers talk about, and the lack of freedom given the teachers would push me to another profession.

Instead of forced and structured lessen plans and testing, which seemed to have been almost non-existent in the fifties, why not recognize the most valuable attribute of good educating, which is that of inspiring the students, of giving them the powerful “thirst” for knowledge, because if successful, one would discover that many students will almost educate themselves. 

I recall several teachers who, by their methods, by the freedom given to them in their classrooms, by the wisdom they possessed, were able to inspire, to light the fire of curiosity in us students.
The thirst for knowledge, for engaging life and all its wonders, can be like a drug, as one wants more and more.  And this drug is free. 

Our school administrators and bureaucrats shackle our teachers with over-control, tons of paperwork, and forced structured testing, but have no clue what freedom can produce among teachers.  Admittedly, freedom to some teachers gives them freedom to be mediocre.  I recall lazy teachers, uninspiring teachers.  But look at what the excessive control of teachers has produced in our schools today.  It has produced mediocrity, much like the Soviet system after decades of top-down control of so-called communism produced a shamefully inefficient system and world of poor products and uninspired citizens.  Just as these idiotic policies brought the Soviets to their knees, our idiotic school system is bringing our educational system to its knees.

The bureaucrats, let me call them idiots, in politics, in school boards, and in high levels of school administrations are, by excessive control over “teaching”, producing mediocrities in teachers, and therefore mediocre students.  A good educational system will give more freedom to teachers, will instill in them the value of inspiring the students, of lighting the fire within so that the student will thirst for learning, and can actually see where he or she is in the scheme of things, and where they might go.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:40:10 AM by ronchamblin »