Author Topic: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?  (Read 2868 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« on: January 04, 2012, 03:08:28 AM »
Are Complete Streets Incomplete?



Project for Public Spaces questions the effectiveness of Complete Streets policies and recommends additional guidelines to make implementing Complete Streets policies in communities more effective.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jan-are-complete-streets-incomplete

dougskiles

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 06:44:59 AM »
#3 on the list is of great concern to me.

We lost one of our shopkeepers in San Marco recently due to a horrible accident on Hendricks Avenue at the 'Point' (where San Jose joins back with Hendricks).  Someone ran a red light and tee boned his car.  I drive my car or ride my bike on the road several times a day.  The posted speed limit is 40 mph.  If you actually drive 40, you are the slowest on the road, with people swerving to get around you.

The main reason people drive so fast is because they feel comfortable doing so.  With two 12-ft wide lanes and shoulders, the road feels like driving on an expressway.  That condition exists all over Jacksonville.

So the first solution should be to establish a lane width and edge treatment that corresponds to a particular comfortable speed and retrofit all city streets to those corresponding limits.  This would be a requirement every time a road is resurfaced.  In 10 to 20 years, the entire city could be made safer.  Think of how much we would save in health care and emergency expenses with fewer traffic accidents?

thelakelander

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 07:00:15 AM »
^This was one of the intentions of the context sensitive streets guidelines that Bill Killingsworth was working on with public works before his resignation was accepted.  Hopefully, the new administration will follow through on some of these ideas.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fieldafm

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 12:37:28 PM »
Interesting/helpful graphic from that PPS article



dougskiles

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 12:46:38 PM »
I like the bicycle box for left turns.

How far did the context sensitive streets initiative get?  And not only did they accept Bill's resignation, but his counterpart in Public Works who was also working on it.  So, it is back to the starting blocks.

thelakelander

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 02:03:34 PM »
The document was completed but the opportunity to work with public works, in getting them to modify their roadway design requirements never fully got underway.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Captain Zissou

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 02:47:18 PM »
Quote
The main reason people drive so fast is because they feel comfortable doing so.  With two 12-ft wide lanes and shoulders, the road feels like driving on an expressway.  That condition exists all over Jacksonville.

I agree completely. 

On Roosevelt Blvd between the bridge over the Ortega River and 295, I would often find myself going 65-75mph.  This was not because I was in a hurry or I felt like speeding, it was because that seemed like the speed the road was designed for.  San Jose, Southside, Philips, parts of Baymeadows, Beach Blvd, Atlantic, parts of 3rd Street, State Street, Union.... etc all feel like they are designed for 60 mph traffic.  Old San Jose Blvd even feels like a 50 mph road. Drivers accelerate to those speeds without even realizing it, then the cops slap tickets on people who were only doing what their environment influenced them to do. 

dougskiles

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 03:33:02 PM »
Old San Jose Blvd even feels like a 50 mph road.

Yes, it does.  With all of the kids who ride bikes and skateboard on that road, I feel the speed limit should be 25 mph, not the posted 35 mph.  So - just to act as a traffic calming device, I drive 25 mph.  It always surprises me to see the types of people who pull right up behind me impatiently waiting for me to turn.  More often than not, it is a mom with a car full of kids.

We really missed an opportunity to correct these conditions when most of Jacksonville was repaved during the BJP.

Dashing Dan

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 11:38:17 AM »
Adoption of a complete streets policy would at least be a step in the right direction for Jacksonville.  Given the other cities that have adopted complete streets policies, I don't see where it would be that hard for us to get one adopted here.  With a complete streets policy in place, we would then be in a better position to influence public works etc.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.  - Benjamin Franklin

tufsu1

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 11:50:29 AM »
me thinks Dashing Dan needs to make Thomas the Train his next avatar :)

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 02:38:54 PM »
Quote
The main reason people drive so fast is because they feel comfortable doing so.  With two 12-ft wide lanes and shoulders, the road feels like driving on an expressway.  That condition exists all over Jacksonville.

I agree completely. 

On Roosevelt Blvd between the bridge over the Ortega River and 295, I would often find myself going 65-75mph.  This was not because I was in a hurry or I felt like speeding, it was because that seemed like the speed the road was designed for.  San Jose, Southside, Philips, parts of Baymeadows, Beach Blvd, Atlantic, parts of 3rd Street, State Street, Union.... etc all feel like they are designed for 60 mph traffic.  Old San Jose Blvd even feels like a 50 mph road. Drivers accelerate to those speeds without even realizing it, then the cops slap tickets on people who were only doing what their environment influenced them to do.

I think you are absolutely right.  With these low density neighborhoods (such as beach and Hodges) where everything is so spread apart, you have to drive faster to get to the next whatever.  If you try and drive less than 60 on any of these blvds you will be rear ended. 

Dashing Dan

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 04:52:21 PM »
me thinks Dashing Dan needs to make Thomas the Train his next avatar :)
< - This new avatar is my own 1974 photo of the locomotive that is now rotting behind our convention center.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.  - Benjamin Franklin

Abhishek

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 04:43:33 PM »
I would like to see more traffic calming devices that are not speed-breakers. Round-abouts and gentle curves on streets do this well.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair

Abhishek

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Re: Are Complete Streets Incomplete?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 04:47:57 PM »
Interesting/helpful graphic from that PPS article



The bike-box does not make it any easier to take left turns when the light is green.
Also, the image shows bike lanes right next to parked cars which should really be avoided. I don't see how it continues to be alright to build bike lanes in the door-zone.

Here are some examples of intersection design that adds traffic calming by setting back turning cars from bicycle and pedestrian traffic.
http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2011/04/state-of-art-bikeway-design-or-is-it.html
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair