Author Topic: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?  (Read 8627 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« on: November 01, 2011, 03:02:53 AM »
The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?



According to Tischler Report economic analysts, cost-of-services studies show Florida taxpayers pay $1.39-2.45 for every tax dollar paid by a new development. Costs at the higher end of this range are for development in rural areas.  If new development already wasn't covering its costs directly or indirectly, what will be the ultimate economic impact of the recently approved mobility fee moratorium on Jacksonville?  Do we even care to put forth the effort to find out where we truly stand economically?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-nov-the-price-of-sprawl-are-we-bankrupting-our-future

Noone

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 04:39:51 AM »
Another great article and can see the same correlations on how our Waterways have been impacted to what use to be referred to as a working waterfront.

dougskiles

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 05:57:36 AM »
The timing of this article with the JTA gas tax article is impeccable.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-11-01/story/jta-cools-gas-tax-talk

What really strikes me is this quote from CM Warren Jones (council's JTA liasion):

Quote
Jones said neither the city nor its motorists can afford to wait for such proposals to be debated.
 
He said JTA has the expertise to plan and conduct major road and bridge construction and should be enabled to proceed while the economy is keeping construction costs relatively low.
 
“It creates jobs and helps the economy,” Jones said.
 
He also dismissed the idea of JTA being simply a transit agency. It was created as a state organization in the 1950s to help keep Jacksonville’s transportation infrastructure, he said.
 
“JTA is better suited at building those roads — that is if we want to stay ahead of growth.”

The belief that more roads relieve congestion is widespread in our community, despite evidence that more roads simply lead to more congested areas.  Our work is cut out for us.

I agree with Mr. Jones assessment that we need to continue investing in our infrastructure and look forward to meeting with him to discuss the alternatives to road building as a way of improving our city.

thelakelander

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 06:12:00 AM »
^You beat me to it.  I was just about to post something similar, regarding CM Jones' comments in the JTA gas tax article.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

north miami

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 06:43:05 AM »

Consider the State of Florida Department of Community Affairs review/comments and objections lodged with Brannon Chaffee and Lake Asbury Sector Plan.
The monetary cost burden,other damaging elements of Sprawl were acknowledged within the Citizen's  DCA,however sparingly,and the discipline has been recently largely excised from DCA.

MJ would do well,as a study,to post DCA Brannon Chaffee and Lake Asbury Comments & Objections.




JeffreyS

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 08:03:42 AM »
Wow great article but I think you missed so of our local sprawl positives. Now due to the thoughtful actions of our city council and their Mobility Fee moratorium local GOB developers can have a larger model number on their Mercedes, Wendy's will finally be able to afford to sell burgers and the next new residential construction boom is immanent.  Have to go I see a unicorn climbing a rainbow.   
Lenny Smash

tufsu1

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 08:28:43 AM »
and the discipline has been recently largely excised from DCA.

actually it was DCA that got excised

cityimrov

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 09:50:08 AM »
How did things end up this way?  The future was suppose to bring a better lifestyle and better things to us.  We had flight, cars, the internet, we even reached the moon!  How is it the cities built way back when ended up being better than what we have now?  How did the future of city planning end up worst then the past? 

JeffreyS

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 10:18:22 AM »
I think we were sold on child safety and that we could live like rich people live by purchasing McMansions. Dead end streets are seen as private drives.  Certainly zoning and people not understanding the true costs of roads played into it.  Developers understood they would reap more profit by clearing virgin land than with infill projects and ramped up the marketing machine to shape the desires of the consuming public.
Lenny Smash

pwhitford

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 10:58:50 AM »
In light of this article, I feel compelled to share a recent e-mail exchange with Councilman John Crescimbeni.  I post this to show some of at least one member's thinking behind these recent steps, and though I disagree with the measures taken and the reasoning behind it, I do applaud Councilman Crescimbeni for being the only council member to provide something more than a one line, auto reply.  I really appreciated his effort and respect his view, and the evidence he sited in support of his argument.   It goes a long way to proving his worth as someone you can at least talk to and have an exchange with. 

Having said that, I still think the moratorium was a big mistake that will be almost impossible to rectify by reinstating.  It was all wrong thinking mired in an old, outdated and discredited philosophy regarding growth and economic viability.


My e-mail:

From: PWhitford 
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:06 AM
To: Mayor Alvin Brown; Yarborough, Clay; Bishop, Bill; Clark, Richard; Redman, Don; Boyer, Lori; Schellenberg, Matthew; Gaffney, Johnny; Lee, Denise; Jones, Warren; Brown, Reggie; Holt, Ray; Carter, Doyle; Gulliford, William; Love, James; Daniels, Kimberly; Crescimbeni, John; Joost, Stephen; Anderson, Greg; Lumb, Robin
Subject: Ordinance 2011-617
 
Dear Mayor Brown and Council Members:
 
Please do not put a moratorium on the Mobility Fee.  Vote against Ordinance 2011-617.  Jacksonville taxpayers subsidizing 100% of private development's negative impacts on public infrastructure is not acceptable or productive. The Mobility Fee helps Jacksonville’s citizens maximize the benefits of needed development.  A moratorium will not encourage development in a community where over 50% of residential properties are currently underwater and office vacancy rates are over 20%.  To date, there is little to no evidence to support the proposition that such a moratorium significantly stimulates any private sector development and hence no evidence of the measure’s actual benefit to anyone other than a few developers. That is a non-argument.  Please do not support the moratorium. 
 
Thank you,

His reply:

from   Crescimbeni, John JRC@coj.net
sender-time   Sent at 4:19 PM (UTC). Current time there: 2:45 PM. ✆
to   PWhitford
date   Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 4:19 PM
subject   RE: Ordinance 2011-617
mailed-by   coj.net
   Important mainly because of the words in the message.
hide details Oct 11
Mr. Whitford:
 
Thank you for your email about proposed ordinance 2011-617 which will be considered by the full City Council at tonight’s meeting.
 
Although I have previously been reluctant to waive the collection of fair share or (what is now known as the) mobility fee, I recognize the fact that we are in a significant recession and I am interested in spurring any type of activity that would create jobs.  In addition, information provided by the Planning and Development Department (shown in the table below) clearly suggests that in recent years, the collection of fair share or (what is now known as the) mobility fee have fallen to almost non existent levels.
 
         Fiscal Year        Amount        # Projects
            2006-07        $7,142,171           56
            2007-08        $9,162,613           56
            2008-09        $2,740,333           18
            2009-10         $826,564              5
 
 
Likewise, the economy seems to be taking a toll on traffic counts.  The Florida Department of Transportation is reporting a marked decrease in vehicular traffic on local state roadways.  I am attaching several links from various roads which clearly show declines in usage (traffic) after peak traffic counts were established in 2007-2008.
 
With that said, ordinance 2011-617 proposes to waive the mobility fee for twelve (12) months from the effective date of the ordinance – and further requires the completion of the construction project to occur within thirty six (36) months of the effective date.  Because of current surplus inventory, I can’t imagine that any residential development (particularly single family) will result from the passage of this legislation.  However, commercial construction could result, which would in turn lead to two things; new jobs (both short term construction and long term employees for the businesses occupying the newly constructed buildings and additional ad valorem tax revenue for both the city and Duval County Public Schools.
 
Again, while previously reluctant to waive the collection of fair share or (what is now known as the) mobility fee, based on recent fair share collections (or the lack thereof) and the promise of new jobs, I think a twelve (12) month experiment to create jobs is worth taking a chance on.
 
In closing, thank you again for your email.
 
 
John R. Crescimbeni
City Councilman, At-Large, Group 2
Enlightenment--that magnificent escape from anguish and ignorance--never happens by accident. It results from the brave and sometimes lonely battle of one person against his own weaknesses.

-Bhikkhu Nyanasobhano, "Landscapes of Wonder"

Timkin

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 01:44:50 PM »
I think we were sold on child safety and that we could live like rich people live by purchasing McMansions. Dead end streets are seen as private drives.  Certainly zoning and people not understanding the true costs of roads played into it.  Developers understood they would reap more profit by clearing virgin land than with infill projects and ramped up the marketing machine to shape the desires of the consuming public.

 We can all live on less ,and live in a less expensive "Mc Mansion" and do without a lot of things we think we must have. It is only my opinion that we are at the tip of the iceberg on the economic slump and we will find that we WILL live on less income, have less possessions , live simpler and most likely be happier and less stressed. 

 There really is something to be said for simpler times.

Urban Sprawl is contributing to our economic demise IMO.

Tacachale

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 01:53:45 PM »
Dead shopping malls rise like mountains beyond mountains...
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2011, 02:29:14 PM »
Would I be correct in assuming that most people who moved to the outer-limits of the city did so to escape the 'hustle & bustle' of living in the city; they didn't realize that all of the urban issues that they were theoretically running from were expanding outward because of them.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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tufsu1

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2011, 03:07:47 PM »
well there's that...there are also those that went outside for better schools, more land, or for affordability (drive until you qualify).

jcjohnpaint

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Re: The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2011, 03:50:10 PM »
The diverse three arms of Florida's economy:  Tourism, Sprawl, and Wendys ::)