Author Topic: The Jacksonville Jaguars  (Read 1273227 times)

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8985 on: November 21, 2017, 02:19:59 PM »
^ I've seen a couple of articles suggesting the Jaguars are taking a Moneyball-like analytical approach here.

If the entire league is putting its resources in passing offense and speed rushers, counterpunch by putting the majority of your resources in suffocating defense and having a power running game, because the majority of teams are going to be unable to respond to that.  Then you can compete with "lower-cost and serviceable" at quarterback.

Seattle more or less has done this for a number of years, too, though Wilson has been much better than just serviceable.  A miracle worker, really, given the offensive line he's saddled with.  Though his success in turn threatens the resource allocation strategy since his market value is higher than was anticipated.

The problem is trying to keep that defense together.  The difficulty of keeping an entire unit at championship level vs. having one championship level quarterback was a talking point in the Oehser column today, in fact.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 02:37:03 PM by Wacca Pilatka »
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Henry J. Klutho

ProjectMaximus

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8986 on: November 21, 2017, 02:59:12 PM »
The problem is trying to keep that defense together.  The difficulty of keeping an entire unit at championship level vs. having one championship level quarterback was a talking point in the Oehser column today, in fact.

haha i saw that and it prompted me to return to this thread to expound on my comments.

As Ozone pointed out, the window for the elite D is likely to be much shorter than that of the elite QB. So fine, ride it as long as we can (4-7 years instead of 10-15) and let's keep drafting QBs. Hopefully when the D drops off we've found that QB and can pay him instead.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8987 on: November 21, 2017, 03:13:28 PM »
and let's keep drafting QBs.

This.

I'm a fan of the theory that you draft a QB every year until you find the right one, and then you continue to draft a QB every year.

You don't have to spend a high pick on one, but there are plenty of solid guys that are found in the mid rounds 3-5.

Wilson (3) Cousins (4) Prescott (4) jump out at me, but there are other guys like Foles (3), Brissett (3), Savage (4). 

Seattle had just given Foles big money when they drafted Wilson.
Cousins was drafted in the same draft as RGIII.
And Dallas had a resurging (yet brittle) Tony Romo.

Hell, the Patriots have drafted Mallet(3), Garappolo(2) & Brissett(3) all in the last 6 years....

For whatever reason we still have Henne backing up one of the most durable QBs in the league.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8988 on: November 21, 2017, 04:49:47 PM »
Agreed.  Even if you don't keep the QBs you draft, sometimes you garner trade equity out of them when another team is enchanted with a fill-in or preseason performance.  As New England did with Garappolo and Mallett, and as the Jaguars famously did with Rob Johnson for the draft pick that turned into Fred.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8989 on: November 21, 2017, 04:53:21 PM »
The problem is trying to keep that defense together.  The difficulty of keeping an entire unit at championship level vs. having one championship level quarterback was a talking point in the Oehser column today, in fact.

haha i saw that and it prompted me to return to this thread to expound on my comments.

As Ozone pointed out, the window for the elite D is likely to be much shorter than that of the elite QB. So fine, ride it as long as we can (4-7 years instead of 10-15) and let's keep drafting QBs. Hopefully when the D drops off we've found that QB and can pay him instead.

While the window is shorter, it's much better to have a strategy that affords you a window than to just wring your hands because you aren't one of the five or six teams with an elite QB.  So I'm thankful we have one.

Probably the key to keeping that window open for as many years is to keep Ramsey and find the next Calais.  The speed rushers and fast linebackers are dandy, the vastly improved safeties are a treat after 10 years in the post- Donovin Darius and Deon Grant wilderness.  But the shutdown corners are the straws that stir the drink on this defense, and adding Campbell was what made a line with talent and potential into Sacksonville.
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MusicMan

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8990 on: November 21, 2017, 05:19:12 PM »
Blake Bortles squaring off against Blaine Gabbert this weekend.    And people wonder why attendance is down?

Gabbert as a starter in the NFL:       41 TD 39 INT    44 games played and has a 9-32 record as starting QB.



Meanwhile Kaep lookin for work............................



Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8991 on: November 21, 2017, 06:04:59 PM »
Blake Bortles squaring off against Blaine Gabbert this weekend.    And people wonder why attendance is down?

Gabbert as a starter in the NFL:       41 TD 39 INT    44 games played and has a 9-32 record as starting QB.



Meanwhile Kaep lookin for work............................

For fuck's sake, let it go...

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ProjectMaximus

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8992 on: November 21, 2017, 06:16:57 PM »
While the window is shorter, it's much better to have a strategy that affords you a window than to just wring your hands because you aren't one of the five or six teams with an elite QB.  So I'm thankful we have one.

Probably the key to keeping that window open for as many years is to keep Ramsey and find the next Calais.  The speed rushers and fast linebackers are dandy, the vastly improved safeties are a treat after 10 years in the post- Donovin Darius and Deon Grant wilderness.  But the shutdown corners are the straws that stir the drink on this defense, and adding Campbell was what made a line with talent and potential into Sacksonville.

Totally agree. I think Ramsey and Bouye are the cornerstones and it is great that they're both young with their prime years still to come. Of course Ramsey is gonna cost a lot in a few years. (Also, as much trash as he talks, he is on record saying AJ is the better corner currently) After that they gotta lock down Yannick. Replacing Campbell is probably impossible but if you keep paying big money to those positions (add in Jackson and Dareus' contracts) then you'll at least have a shot at coming close.

I started to plug in some numbers, scenarios, and who stays and who goes, but it was making me sad. you know what? I just want to enjoy this run...the offseason is the time for discussing these matters imo. Plus, the way the next 6-10 weeks play out will go a long way in shaping our perception of this roster.

Oh and shout out to Barry Church. I think he's been a really underrated pickup. Super solid in coverage and run support...excellent tackler (watch him do something this weekend to make me regret saying this)

This entire defense is scary!! And they're not even at peak performance. Ramsey, Jack, Smith and Yannick are gonna keep getting better I'm sure. Fowler might if he can eventually figure out a move. Wow. Fun.

JaxAvondale

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8993 on: November 21, 2017, 07:32:49 PM »

So it's easy to say - we just need to grab an elite QB.  It's going to be a helluva lot harder to do.  Those guys aren't cheap.

I am 100% sure I don´t know shit about CAP space or who pays what for whom.

That said, I do read a LOT of these NFL focused sites, from ESPN to CBS Sports to Sports Illustrated, and all of them - literally ALL of them - suggest we´re one of the only teams in the entire league who CAN afford an elite QB (Eli, Cousins, Taylor, etc - elite or not, who knows, but we can afford them).

Not sure how the money side of things will play out but watching Houston and Philly and LAX with their second or first year under the radar QBs makes me think anything is possible...

The Jags exercised the 5th year option for Bortles. That option carries a $19 million cap figure. The Jags can cut him at the end of the season without a cap penalty as long as he isn't injured. So, the Jags could cut him and use the "$19 million" cap figure for another QB.

JaxAvondale

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8994 on: November 21, 2017, 07:37:00 PM »

(I just pray our D is this good next year, and for a few years to come...add in a Kirk Cousins etc and next year could be Jags to the Super Bowl - realistically)

And therein lies the problem....  Our D should be this good until about 2019 when we have to start making some serious decisions regarding who we're going to pay.

We have an offense without any real playmakers on the outside.  Lee has been OK, but he can't catch the ball when a DB is near him - and we're going to have to make a decision on him and A-Rob this offseason.

Based on current contracts, we'll have over 56% of our cap tied up in our defense - the highest paid defense in the league.  That doesn't leave room for playmakers and a high-priced FA QB on the other side.  Currently we're 19th in spending on the offensive side. 

Seems about right; you get what you pay for. A top ranked defense and a middle of the road offense. 

So it's easy to say - we just need to grab an elite QB.  It's going to be a helluva lot harder to do.  Those guys aren't cheap.   

Agreed on having to pay some folks. They took care of Telvin during the Bye Week. I think next year you really have to look at Yannick and Fowler. The challenge is resigning both - Yannick is the priority to me. The year after, you have to be looking at Ramsey and Jack. Ramsey is going to want out of this world money, and you're probably going to have to pay it or lose him because someone will pay him BIG. Jack needs to get paid too, but maybe not as much. I think the odd man out is Colvin this offseason - runor is he wants to be paid, but on this team he's a nickel and that won't change with Boyue and Ramsey here for a while (likely).



Ramsey was drafted in the 1st round. So, the Jags will exercise the 5th year option on him which means he will be tied up through the end of the 2020 season.

ben says

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8995 on: November 22, 2017, 10:13:28 AM »
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MusicMan

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8996 on: November 22, 2017, 04:42:48 PM »
Case Keenum, Teddy Bridgewater and AJ McCarron are the only ones I would consider on that list.

And NRWS, that horse ain't dead, it's sleepin................. 8)

Snaketoz

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8997 on: November 24, 2017, 09:04:42 AM »
I will keep beating the horse.  The Jaguars sticking with Flake Bortles will continue to haunt them in the future.  With their great defense playing some of the best football in their history, they have to depend on Bortles to score.  That is so scary.  Having the best defense and then having to hold their breath while one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL enters the game.  The Jaguars should have brought in a QB long ago.  It's like a no-brainer.  Why have they ignored the most important position? It's too late now.  They are stuck.  Even the backup is a disaster.  How many wins would the Jags have if there were no defensive TDs in every win?  When the Jaguars drafted Bortles I had every hope he would help the team.  He has had the opposite effect.  Move on after this season and develop a QB the compliments the defense.

ProjectMaximus

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8998 on: November 24, 2017, 09:38:20 AM »
Did anybody watch Dak the past three weeks? I'm slowly moving Blake up, perhaps cracking the top 15 QBs in the league. Not saying he should or shouldn't be on this team next year, but for right now, during this playoff run, we could be in far worse shape than we are.

By the way, our offense this year is on pace to throw for more yards and run for more yards than the Seahawks 2013 Super Bowl championship team. However our offense is off their pace on TDs by about 6. Luckily our defense and special teams have already scored 2 more TDs than they did that entire year so that could very well make up the difference. Not to mention our D is just performing statistically better across the board. 

ben says

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Re: The Jacksonville Jaguars
« Reply #8999 on: November 24, 2017, 11:21:59 AM »
For luxury travel agency & concierge services, reach out at jax2bcn@gmail.com - my blog about life in Barcelona can be found at www.lifeinbarcelona.com (under construction!)