Author Topic: How To Design A Transportation Center  (Read 12263 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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How To Design A Transportation Center
« on: July 05, 2011, 03:28:46 AM »
How To Design A Transportation Center



While we move forward with a spread out $180 million intermodal transportation center, Raleigh has decided to reduce their $150 million proposed center to $20 million by consolidating modes into an existing abandoned warehouse building.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jul-how-to-design-a-transportation-center

Prax_N_Jax

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 06:19:48 AM »
Wow! Why can't we get city planners like that? It's bad enough we spent so much on that court house... I was in Washington DC and their Union Station is awesome! I could see the Prime Osborne returning to its former glory and if we took that 180 million instead and used elsewhere to revitalize  downtown I would be sold.
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Jumpinjack

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 08:40:23 AM »
Brilliant! Does Jacksonville need to save money and build a transportation hub? You bet!

tg

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 08:59:19 AM »
Great article, and I absolutely agree! Let's use the space already offered by the Prime Osborn and prevent a sprawling transportation center. All of those millions of dollars could go to better use downtown also, while still getting a great transportation center.

JeffreyS

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 09:35:35 AM »
You have to include a convention center plan in order to consolidate.  If we can get the old courthouse site done great.  If not do we really want to move all of our convention activities out to the Morocco Shrine Auditorium?

A single platform to walk all transit modes would be best.
Lenny Smash

Fallen Buckeye

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 09:44:35 AM »
I wonder how much money it would cost to convert Prime Osborne back to a transit center as opposed to building the JRTC as planned. If you could show that there would be substantial cost savings then I think you'd have an easier time drumming up public support for the alternative plan.

thelakelander

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 10:01:14 AM »
It's a shame that a third party would have to go out of their way to personally invest in a study to present an alternative option that would save the city millions.  One would think the professionals in place could run with this by evaluating it in-house. 

However, right off the bat, common sense would tell me I'm saving tons by not having to construct four separate building foundations on multiple blocks, parking garages, new parking aprons, and repetitive building features such as, entryways, windows, restrooms, etc. that come with developing multiple structures.  From attending the inauguration last week, the PO's exhibition hall looks to be pretty solid and in great shape.  There's also acres of paved parking behind it.  There's no way finding a way to reuse/modify existing facilities would save taxpayers huge bucks along with creating a more efficient intermodal complex.  This is something we may have to dig up extra time to do as you suggest.

Anyway, I wonder how many years would it take to drum up $180 million for what's currently proposed?  After all, this thing has been talked about since at least the 1970s.  My gut feeling tells me, we'll have a new convention center built well in advance of the full JRTC plan coming into implementation.  Without looking into an alternative option, we'll probably spend a ton of money building Greyhound on Adams Street, then modify after the convention center moves, leaving the greyhound terminal isolated a few blocks away.  The other option would be worse.  In that scenario we'd find the $180 million pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and break ground on the sprawling ranch, only to discover that the convention center moves out before construction is complete, leaving a gaping vacant hole in the middle of the complex.
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Fallen Buckeye

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 10:27:38 AM »
Yeah, you're right. You'd figure it'd be plain as day. Just seeing Raleigh's cost savings should be evidence enough. In some ways, we'd be in even better shape considering that Raleigh had to adapt an old industrial building versus having a building that was originally a train station anyways. Plus, PO has been in continuous use for a long time, so hopefully it is in fairly good shape still.

Jumpinjack

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2011, 11:00:49 AM »
It's a shame that a third party would have to go out of their way to personally invest in a study to present an alternative option that would save the city millions.  One would think the professionals in place could run with this by evaluating it in-house. 

My experience has been that frequently good ideas come from  third parties because the bureaucracy is so embedded with same-ole-same-ole ways of doing things. Plus it's very likely that there is a hidden agenda to help someone  make a financial gain selling to the city or develop adjacent property. Think about it.

JeffreyS

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 11:04:30 AM »
I bet the JTA would go along if the city counsel said build it all on the Jax Terminal Property.
Lenny Smash

Ralph W

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 11:15:37 AM »
Does anyone remember what Jax used as a convention center before the Terminal conversion? Did we even host conventions? How many more and how much larger (attendance wise) is the convention business now vs then? Are there figures available to gauge the economic impact throughout the years? Did the Prime Osborn conversion actually augment the stature and growth of the city? Do conventions cause a sustainable gain or are they just cool to have?

duvaldude08

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 11:25:29 AM »
Does anyone remember what Jax used as a convention center before the Terminal conversion? Did we even host conventions? How many more and how much larger (attendance wise) is the convention business now vs then? Are there figures available to gauge the economic impact throughout the years? Did the Prime Osborn conversion actually augment the stature and growth of the city? Do conventions cause a sustainable gain or are they just cool to have?

I was wondering the same thing. Im not sure if had a covention center before the Prime Osbourne. But I am sure one of the MJ old head's can tell us (hehehehe) But I feel that conventions=people in the city=money.
Jaguars 2.0

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 11:46:11 AM »
If I am not mistaken, Jacksonville hosted conventions at its various hotels (e.g. Robert Meyer, George Washington, Roosevelt) and at what was then the Civic Auditorium.  When I was researching the Florida Education Association around the time of the 1968 teachers strike, I remember reading that they had their convention in downtown Jacksonville and spread their presence around the various hotels...
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Tacachale

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 12:35:06 PM »
Is there any way to get the design changed at this point, or is it all in vain? And I'm not seeing the city's justification for the current design.
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jcjohnpaint

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Re: How To Design A Transportation Center
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 02:22:11 PM »
It's a shame that a third party would have to go out of their way to personally invest in a study to present an alternative option that would save the city millions.  One would think the professionals in place could run with this by evaluating it in-house. 

However, right off the bat, common sense would tell me I'm saving tons by not having to construct four separate building foundations on multiple blocks, parking garages, new parking aprons, and repetitive building features such as, entryways, windows, restrooms, etc. that come with developing multiple structures.  From attending the inauguration last week, the PO's exhibition hall looks to be pretty solid and in great shape.  There's also acres of paved parking behind it.  There's no way finding a way to reuse/modify existing facilities would save taxpayers huge bucks along with creating a more efficient intermodal complex.  This is something we may have to dig up extra time to do as you suggest.

And I wondered why there are so many tea part folks in this area along with a population hesitant to want to 'dump' money into somebody's pet project.  The third party here seems like the only groups with any kind of moral obligation and common sense in rebuilding downtown.  It does not make sense to build every project with a fail safe self destruction button.  Think about the problems before they have a chance of happening.   

Anyway, I wonder how many years would it take to drum up $180 million for what's currently proposed?  After all, this thing has been talked about since at least the 1970s.  My gut feeling tells me, we'll have a new convention center built well in advance of the full JRTC plan coming into implementation.  Without looking into an alternative option, we'll probably spend a ton of money building Greyhound on Adams Street, then modify after the convention center moves, leaving the greyhound terminal isolated a few blocks away.  The other option would be worse.  In that scenario we'd find the $180 million pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and break ground on the sprawling ranch, only to discover that the convention center moves out before construction is complete, leaving a gaping vacant hole in the middle of the complex.