Author Topic: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome  (Read 7841 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« on: June 30, 2011, 06:03:25 AM »
Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome



Here are five revitalization myths that have plagued downtown Jacksonville and the surrounding urban core neighborhoods for the last 30 years.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jun-five-revitalization-myths-jacksonville-must-overcome

Bativac

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 07:39:32 AM »
This article is 100% spot on.

Dapperdan

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 08:06:28 AM »
I would have to argue that the Laura street scape was needed and actually pushed by metrojacksonville. It added more than the normal brick pavers though. It added wayfaring signs, architectural lighting, a one way street was made two way, but still it was a street scape project.

vicupstate

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 08:11:55 AM »
What are the policies that are keeping the industrial corridor stagnant?  Also, what are the projects that were proposed but never made due to the city?

I think maybe we are blaming the city when really the economy, inability to get financing, and just a general lack of entepreneuring vision is really the culprit. 

Whatever happened to the 5th & Liberty project?  How did that go?

I also agree there is an over reliance on big 'sexy' projects, but the big, sexy PRIVATE projects never got built for the most part (ie Shipyards, Brooklyn Park).  So in reality, we never found out what impact those projects would have had, had they been built.   
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thelakelander

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 08:25:41 AM »
I would have to argue that the Laura street scape was needed and actually pushed by metrojacksonville. It added more than the normal brick pavers though. It added wayfaring signs, architectural lighting, a one way street was made two way, but still it was a street scape project.

However, idea behind the Laura Street Streetscape was not viewed as an economic development catalyst that would transform the Northbank.  The basic premises was to better light the street and integrate the surrounding buildings (and the proposed projects along the corridor at the time) with the sidewalks.  By no means would such a project lead to the filling up of the corridor with retail on its own.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fsujax

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 08:35:46 AM »
I agree Lake. Streetscape projects are no catalyst for economic development. You have given some good examples to prove that.

thelakelander

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 08:56:16 AM »
What are the policies that are keeping the industrial corridor stagnant?  Also, what are the projects that were proposed but never made due to the city?

I think maybe we are blaming the city when really the economy, inability to get financing, and just a general lack of entepreneuring vision is really the culprit.

Significant strips of obsolete early 20th century warehousing along strips like Beaver, Myrtle Avenue, Dennis Street, etc.    have been placed in industrial overlay zones, which limit what types of adaptive reuse projects can spring up within these facilities.  I'll see if Stephen can fill us on his experience with trying to move Boomtown to a vacant warehouse on Myrtle and Forsyth a few years back.

Quote
Sec. 656.399.40. - Definitions.

As used in this Subpart:

(a)
Industrial Sanctuary means a distinct geographical area predominately consisting of industrial uses and zoning districts and strategically located for future expansion and economic development.

(b)
Industrial Sanctuary Overlay Zone means an overlay zoning district designated by the City Council for a distinct geographical area predominately consisting of industrial uses and zoning districts and strategically located for future expansion and economic development for the purpose of protecting and preserving the area from premature fragmentation by intrusive residential and commercial uses and promoting the expansion of industrial uses within the area.

(c)
Area of Situational Compatibility means a distinct area that may be suitable for industrial uses under certain circumstances.

(d)
Area of Situational Compatibility Overlay Zone means an overlay zoning district designated by the City Council for a distinct geographical area that may be suitable for industrial uses under certain circumstances.
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=12174&stateID=9&statename=Florida

Here is a link to a discussion about what resulted in the overlays a few years back:   http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/01/15/focus3.html

Free flowing creativity and innovation is a critical ingredient any time we're talking about urban revitalization.  At some point, you can get in a situation where over regulation can impact market rate creativity from taking place.  The Industrial preservation thing was just one example.  Others include signage/mural, mixed-land use, mobile food, sidewalk cafe regulations, etc.

Quote
I also agree there is an over reliance on big 'sexy' projects, but the big, sexy PRIVATE projects never got built for the most part (ie Shipyards, Brooklyn Park).  So in reality, we never found out what impact those projects would have had, had they been built.

But we do know what happened when they didn't.  Significant historical building fabric was lost.  Buildings that if they were left in place, would have been suitable for the type of small scale reinvestment that brought places like Five Points and Park & King back.  For example, every building remaining in Brooklyn Park's six blocks were demolished including a commercial block on Park and the Mount Moriah Church, which was one of the few 19th century buildings still standing in the area at the time.  In fact, most of the abandoned blighted sites in the Northbank are the result of big sexy private sector proposals that never got off the ground.  However, what they did do is hook the community in enough to allow for the immediate demolition of things that were previously located on those sites.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 08:58:13 AM by thelakelander »
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duvaldude08

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 09:26:13 AM »
I agree with this article. No more sexy projects. Even if Wayne Mooney had cash money to begin his project, I would not want it to happen. Im tired of these silly mega projects. Something like the Laura Street trio, IMO is a perfect start. We have been thinking to big. And when all know, its the little things that count.
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Bativac

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 09:35:38 AM »
But we do know what happened when they didn't.  Significant historical building fabric was lost.  Buildings that if they were left in place, would have been suitable for the type of small scale reinvestment that brought places like Five Points and Park & King back.  For example, every building remaining in Brooklyn Park's six blocks were demolished including a commercial block on Park and the Mount Moriah Church, which was one of the few 19th century buildings still standing in the area at the time.  In fact, most of the abandoned blighted sites in the Northbank are the result of big sexy private sector proposals that never got off the ground.  However, what they did do is hook the community in enough to allow for the immediate demolition of things that were previously located on those sites.

That's the saddest part.

I think it's time to completely halt all building demolitions until financing is 100% lined up. Too often these projects get started and what we end up with is a vacant lot. Or, the shell of a seafood restaurant. What's going on with that, anyway?

If only more small businesses could somehow be lured into opening up downtown.

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 09:45:54 AM »
and Laura St was already somewhat vibrant before the streetscape/ making it and enhancement to a more or less populated niched area.  I also notice a lot of people here do nothing while they wait for the private sector to come into town and save the day.  As the saying goes.. you will be sitting at that phone forever waiting for it to ring. 
 

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 09:49:43 AM »
Also I think some of the best vibrant urban areas I have visited were just grassroots creative uses of the urban fabric.  People love the uniqueness and like to gather in these places// A great example would be SOHO and Williamsburg in Brooklyn.  Later big development comes in and pretty much destroys the magic of the area and make it too expensive to live or play in.  You see this in NY all the time. 

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2011, 09:58:51 AM »
Another point...prob too much coffee
Is the megaproject guarantees no hard work- having to sustain a neighborhood or a downtown- is hard work.  To keep something great, one must work everyday and every moment to keep it great.  Are our city politicians up to this task or are they hoping the private sector will take this task off their hands so they can just run business as usual.  It is not easy to be creative and open-minded.  It is easy to just do things the way they have always been done.  I think a lot of people think Bank of American just rolled into Charlotte and made it a world class city overnight.  "Maybe this could be us".  Consider how the public had to work with the private to make Charlotte the city it is today.  In terms of the local political scene around here, MJ is the only platform with good creative problem solving and solutions.  If a politician gets a good idea, their great idea seems to come from this forum.  But again people on this site talk things out.  I have had many ideas that were not so good once considering what other people on here mentioned.  Either local politicians all think they are correct about everything, absolutely stupid and should travel more, or do some good ol fashioned work. 

JeffreyS

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2011, 10:54:52 AM »
I agree with this article. No more sexy projects. Even if Wayne Mooney had cash money to begin his project, I would not want it to happen. Im tired of these silly mega projects. Something like the Laura Street trio, IMO is a perfect start. We have been thinking to big. And when all know, its the little things that count.

We do tend to rely way too much on the big projects.  That does not make those projects bad. We just do not need to wait on them to the detriment of smaller more organic policy driven growth.
Lenny Smash

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2011, 11:01:39 AM »
Having seen MAPS in Oklahoma City I've concluded...

Having a Bass Pro, IKEA, Streetcar, or Streetscape really does bring people into a central business district, but these things are tools and not the completed structure of a city.


OCKLAWAHA

Ajax

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Re: Five Revitalization Myths Jacksonville Must Overcome
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2011, 12:00:23 PM »
Ennis, thanks for putting this together so succinctly.