Author Topic: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You  (Read 2725 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« on: November 30, 2007, 04:45:00 AM »
Coming to a Downtown Street Near You



The City of Jacksonville has allocated funds to convert a number of streets to allow two way traffic.  Will this help pop the toxic bubble?

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/650

Dapperdan

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 10:00:32 AM »
I think this will help out alot. It will llow traffic to move smoother. Why not 2 way Hogan all the way down while they are at it?

David

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 10:05:49 AM »
Oddly enough, I just wrote a pro two way street rant in my livejournal after doing some research on one ways being converted to two ways, before even reading this headline on metrojax today.

http://im-not-real.livejournal.com/


Here's the short version:

Once again, i'm stroking off to my urban planning fantasy:

There's been a movement in cities across the country to convert one way streets back to two ways.

Here's an anti converting rant from a writer who thinks it's just some traffic planners fantasy and the real reason is they don't want cars on the streets:

http://ti.org/vaupdate30.html

The latest fad among urban planners is to convert one-way streets to two way. The goal, they say, is to slow down traffic and make streets more pedestrian friendly.

One-way to two-way conversions are being planned or implemented in Austin, Berkeley, Cambridge, Chattanooga, Cincinnati, Louisville, Palo Alto, Sacramento, San Jose, Seattle, St. Petersburg, and Tampa, among other cities. These proposals have become a major source of controversy in at least some of these cities, especially Austin, Cincinnati, and Chattanooga.

By almost any measurable criteria -- safety, pollution, congestion, and effects on most local businesses -- one-way streets are superior to two way. The idea that two-way streets are superior because they are more pedestrian friendly is just a planner's fantasy that disguises their real intent: to create an auto-hostile environment.

Pro two way:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/286195/Two-Way-Downtown-Streets

-Two way traffic helps businesses by allowing a greater number of cars onto the road, increasing their visibility and patronage. The traffic study found that traffic counts would increase by 30-50% by converting Tejon back to two-way. That converts to more patrons for retailers along Tejon Street.
-We will not lose any parking in the conversion process, rather, parking will be easier from each direction, and we will actually gain 4 parking spaces. We have ample room to provide a center lane from which drivers can park facing in either direction.
-Businesses that are north and south of the one way zone will also benefit from the increased ability to travel on Tejon Street. Right now, traveling northbound on Tejon Street from Vermijo to Bijou is impossible. Two-way Tejon Street will benefit business both north and south of the center by increasing traffic in both directions.
-Two way traffic conversions have been successfully undertaken in a number of major metropolitan cities, including Denver. It provides a more pedestrian-friendly atmosphere and promotes a healthy business environment by increasing traffic volume and decreasing vehicle speed.

Short version of my rant:

The problem is, the anti two way conversion writers are looking at it all wrong. They're just staring at cold stats on paper, not taking into account the aesthetic benefit and the overall vibe it creates of having two way streets. Example: Riverside has several one way streets up until a year or so ago. Post, College were all one way. I can't tell you how many time's I've hauled ass at 50mph down those streets before I lived over there. Now that they're two way, yes it sucks you can't zip down those roads quickly anymore but it does create a traffic calming effect. It forces cars to slow down, there's parking on both sides of the street so sometimes it's so narrow only one car can go at a time but so what? It's not always about moving the highest traffic volume. Plus,  most people in this town go apeshit when they miss their turn on a one way. I dont think the planners are being anti automobile but were like i said, trying to make it more friendly to pedestrians. It's hard to walk around or ride your bike when cars are tearing up the streets, acting like they own the entire road.


I'm glad I joined this site. I literally just started looking up two way conversions up out of the blue at work, write a babbling rant, click on the home page of metjax and bada bing! The same thing's being discussed.

Nice.


Jason

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 10:05:56 AM »
Why aren't they considering making some east/west streets two-way as well?  Still it is a move in the right direction, IMO.

thelakelander

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 10:28:43 AM »
Quote
The idea that two-way streets are superior because they are more pedestrian friendly is just a planner's fantasy that disguises their real intent: to create an auto-hostile environment.

In a downtown environment the pedestrian should reign over auto from a planning standpoint.  If that means you can't zip down those streets at 40 mph, like a bat out of hell.....isn't that a good thing?

If everything goes as according to plan, it means if you are traveling west on Duval and miss making a left on Laura you don't have to drive down to Jefferson to head south.  That alone should help clear up confusion that many (who are not familiar with the street patterns) have when they visit the core.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Ocklawaha

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 10:36:53 AM »
Sorry guys, but IMO, this should be an all or nothing deal. Having some one-way and some two way is going to be an accident cause. Just as having one-ways without the every other street directional logic does. The infamous loops downtown. Without signing the loops with major overhead, clear signs, it's hopeless. One-way works quite well for everyone, if there is a clear boundry, well defined, and a clear logical, every-other-street pattern. But we messed that up years ago.

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thelakelander

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 11:02:19 AM »
Hopefully, some day it will be and clear signage would be the part of such a conversion plan.  But you have to start somewhere as opposed to waiting 10 or 15 years for the FDOT to allow the conversions of Main and Ocean, before doing the others.

Before coming here, I witnessed the major one way conversions in Lakeland, while working down there.  Everything could not be done overnight... in fact there are still a few one way streets remaining.  Main Street went from being a westbound three lane highway people sped down to hit all the green lights to one with parallel parking and one lane in traffic traveling in each direction. 

Lemon went from being three lanes of eastbound speeding traffic down to two lanes in each direction with a linear green space and sculpture park called the Lemon Street Promenade, connecting the convention center (west of downtown) with Lake Mirror Park (east of downtown).

To do this, the city had to take over these streets from FDOT and build another highway to shift through traffic to.

Accidents haven't been a major issue, but the pedestrian environment, business accessibility & visibility have been enhanced.  Now those lonely sidewalks are lined with restaurants with outdoor seating and specialty boutiques.  Before they were empty storefronts with decaying 1970's facades.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 11:20:44 AM »
Ours is such a mess, anything would probably improve the situation downtown.

Ocklawaha

midnightblackrx

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 07:22:17 AM »
I think it's odd that the city patterns it's lights so that if you do or make it through a yellow light, by merely travelling at 45-50mph you can get through the entire city without stopping.  I'd like to see that change by adding traffic calming devices or changing the light sequencing so that we don't have cars racing through town. 

What improvements do two-way roads have over one-ways? Are we trying to create congestion DT?

thelakelander

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 10:04:33 AM »
Two way streets increase the visibility of businesses located along them and slow down traffic, making the pedestrian environment more user friendly.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

raheem942

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Re: Coming to a Downtown Street Near You
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 11:36:27 AM »
a im for the change