Author Topic: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?  (Read 11489 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« on: February 11, 2011, 03:17:07 AM »
Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?



Jacksonville and Clay County should be thanking their lucky stars that the $1.8 billion Outer Beltway has met its demise.  Going forward, here are a few projects worth considering to improve traffic congestion and encourage economic development in Clay County.


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-outer-beltway-dead-now-what

thelakelander

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 06:30:27 AM »
I noticed the TU has put out their own editorial on the Outer Beltway situation.  It's the complete opposite to this one.  They want this and a northern outer beltway under the view that this is what urban planning is about.

Quote
Outer beltway: Look to the future

The proposed First Coast Outer Beltway is taking a detour because of a sluggish economy.

Building a 46.5-mile toll road to link Interstate 10 in Duval County to Interstate 95 in St. Johns County as initially planned isn't feasible.

So, the Florida Department of Transportation is setting its sights on building the 15-mile segment between I-10 and Blanding Boulevard, and even that isn't certain.

A financial assessment expected to be finished this summer will shed more light on how likely that work could happen.

Important for the future

The beltway would thread together parts of St. Johns, Clay and Duval counties, providing an important avenue to handle growth and hurricane evacuation.

The road would also stimulate new jobs, broaden the local commercial tax base (especially in residential property heavy Clay County) and relieve traffic in parts of Jacksonville and St. Johns County.

But a northern leg of the outer beltway - reaching from I-10 north through Duval and Nassau counties and connecting to Interstate 95 - will be desirable at some point.

And that's where thoughtful urban planning becomes essential.

Officials in Duval and Nassau counties should limit development along a potential beltway corridor.

Such a road could someday relieve traffic pressures, aid orderly growth and be invaluable to Cecil Commerce Center.

If development grows in a future corridor, it will make purchasing right of way difficult. The DOT - as it should be - is focused on what it can do to advance the outer beltway between I-10 and I-95.

It has the right-of-way secured for the stretch between I-10 and Blanding but would still have to acquire land later for the other 30 miles.

An environmental assessment of the corridor is progressing and nearing completion.

Anything beyond that is years off in the distance.

But local officials should be using their binoculars to identify it now and plan accordingly.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-02-11/story/outer-beltway-look-future
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 06:34:10 AM »
Obviously, as a planner, I disagree.  This past decade should have taught us that all growth isn't good growth.  Thoughtful planning should focus on integrating transportation with land use and investing in the development of a multimodal transportation network to support a more sustainable growth pattern.  Sort of like the message behind the 2030 Mobility Plan and Fee that flew over most people's heads.  For the cost and ROI, the Outer Beltway simply does not do that.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jumpinjack

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 07:34:31 AM »
At yesterday's TPO meeting, FDOT representative Mosley said that beltway is not dead but will be done in segments. Chairman Conkey, Clay Co. commissioner, pointed out that with the help of former FDOT Sec. Kopelousos new Clay Co. mgr, the Clay county portion should be moving forward soon.  Obviously, they don't want to consider any alternatives.

tufsu1

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 07:55:06 AM »
exactly...the beltway is far from dead

simms3

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 08:18:57 AM »
Sometimes you begin to think enough people read this site that some good will come of it, but then you realize that there are a ton of people with power (City Hall) and influence (FTU) that don't bother to read this site or to think.  Yes, toll roads are good and the way of the future of highways, but Jacksonville is not even that large.  With all of the new road facilities/improvements just built or about to be built, we're good for practically a decade in that department!

If I was a potential private partner in this toll road, I would not sign on to even a segment.  One: how many toll facilities are they trying to build?  Two: there's hardly a road in Jacksonville with actual traffic volumes that could make a toll profitable for a private company.  Three: with segments just how many of my competitors are going to be involved/taking a share of the tiny little pie?  Four: Logically, I would only do it if the city guaranteed with bond backing or taxpayer money a certain revenue level (which probably wouldn't be naturally met for a couple decades).
Bothering locals and trolling boards since 2005

Garden guy

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 08:41:01 AM »
We can all forget about any kind of advanced transportation systems in this city for another 100 years or so...unless there are some major changes in the way this city is ran it will not happen. The conservative base in this area will not have..they don't see the need and anything to do with "public" they don't like..so..get use to a city that's stuck in the early 20th century...too many kiss ass democrates that wont stand up and say no more bull shit right wing conservative ideas for this city..see what it's got us?

ChriswUfGator

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 08:45:15 AM »
Early 21st Century. At least in the early 20th century, we had public transportation. Lol


simms3

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 09:26:38 AM »
^^^Hahaha, I almost said the same thing, but I figured someone with better verbage would step in.  In Jax it's not about which political party, it's just about a slow, outdated way of thinking (on both sides of the aisle).
Bothering locals and trolling boards since 2005

Doctor_K

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 09:41:50 AM »
^ +1 to each of those responses, Simms and Stephen!  Bravo!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."  -- Albert Einstein

north miami

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 09:45:12 AM »
Regarding Beltway/Brannon-Chaffee matters,at one time Florida Times Union "Reader Advocate" Mike Clark said he agreed with me.Clearly frustrated with his own employers,he wished me "good Luck".

My personal files profile many FTU aspects.
During one pivotal event FTU David Bauerlein twice interviewed me in person and trailed a visit to the Water Management District office.The insights I gave were indeed provocative,I was speaking from a credible position with predictive capability.FTU coverage was disjointed and overtly selective-the FTU would not 'report' in any manner that would have educated the public and therefore possibly affect outcome.

One of my favorite files revolves around the FTU failure to correct former MPO Calvin Burney's erroneous statement and "alleviation" image that 30,000 cars a day would travel Brannon/Chaffee 'as soon as it opens'.
(30,000 ADT actually derived after a period of time-in large part due to development that B/C would spur....)

FTU reporter Binyamin Applebaum was clearly differentiated,he shared submittals the editors "left on the floor".Binyamin's tenure at TU was brief.
Calvin Burney's tenure at MPO ceased shortly after the "As soon as it opens" episode.

Calvin's contribution but one blip in a long history of erroneous "alleviation" image.
Obviously "network alleviation" was a ruse but the ploy worked,and now with some facility segment in place the promotions exit to the "Economic Growth" lane.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 09:57:11 AM by north miami »

Jumpinjack

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 10:11:20 AM »
Sometimes you begin to think enough people read this site that some good will come of it, but then you realize that there are a ton of people with power (City Hall) and influence (FTU) that don't bother to read this site or to think.

Actually MJ was mentioned by Brad Thoburn in his presentation at the TPO yesterday. Someone is reading but, as Stephen says, not all agree.

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 10:11:29 AM »
Really the only way to make a change is to fight every day for what you believe.  Building the outer beltway is a pet project built on nonsense and greed.  Seriously MJ is the only reason I don't go crazy living here.  It is the hope that things can get better.  I have been called an idiot many times preaching the stuff on here.  The only way things could change is the public being informed.  Good media and the vote.  Since I have  been here people have told me go back to NY because this is not NY this is Jacksonville (whatever the hell that means) Like we prefer to be a hole so leave us alone argument.  I have never seen a city with so much possibility.  The fight has only begun and you can feel the change in the air.  This site does a better job of informing the public than any site in this town and the corrupt are afraid....and they should be.  And by the way...sprawl is un American.  My father and grandfather talked about close knit neighborhoods and trains and walking etc.  I bet their fathers would talk about the same thing. 

jandar

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2011, 11:27:13 AM »
The main issue I have had with the outer beltway has been the location of the river crossing. It needs to be further north to actually relieve traffic. There is a 20 mile gap between the Buckman Bridge with its 8 lanes, and the closest southern bridge, the Shands with its 2 lanes. In between those bridges is a pretty heavy bedroom county that has the majority of its workforce commuting outside of the county daily.
The same people that complain that Clay should get more jobs would moan and groan if a company chose clay over downtown.

Commuter rail will help, when you build a route to downtown, and a route across the buckman to the southside. Both of these routes are used by commuters. Going downtown and back to the southside then reversed for going home takes longer than a car, so why would you give up you car?

JeffreyS

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Re: Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2011, 11:30:31 AM »
We can all forget about any kind of advanced transportation systems in this city for another 100 years or so...unless there are some major changes in the way this city is ran it will not happen. The conservative base in this area will not have..they don't see the need and anything to do with "public" they don't like..so..get use to a city that's stuck in the early 20th century...too many kiss ass democrates that wont stand up and say no more bull shit right wing conservative ideas for this city..see what it's got us?
 
The truth is we do not need an advanced transportation system.  If we could just lag 100 years behind we would have streetcars, intercity trains and urban infill in our city.
Lenny Smash