Author Topic: San Marco By Design  (Read 9867 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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San Marco By Design
« on: January 07, 2011, 03:08:22 AM »
San Marco By Design



San Marco Preservation Society (SMPS) and City of Jacksonville Planning & Development Department (COJ PDD) are in the midst of creating a smart growth plan for San Marco.  Metro Jacksonville shares preliminary graphics in an effort to solicit feedback from the community at large.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-san-marco-by-design

dougskiles

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 06:08:35 AM »
Thanks for the article.  I look forward to hearing ideas and comments from the MJ community and will pass them along to our steering committee (of which, I am a member).

Look for regular updates of our progress in this thread.

vicupstate

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 07:23:21 AM »
It is quite ironic that San Marco, 5 Points, and Avondale have been successful as urban commercial districts but DT is suffering so much.  I think the resident-grassroots-driven nature of those areas vs. DT is a critical difference.  DVI, DDA, et al were all government driven and controlled.  RAP, SMPS, are not. 
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acme54321

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 07:26:19 AM »
I think it looks really good.

One thing that I noticed mentioned a lot was the Kings Ave garage.  There needs to be some sort of easy access from 95NB and back on to 95SB from this garage.  Currently it's nearly impossible to get to, especially for someone unfamiliar with the area.  Until that happens I think it will be very difficult to utilize in redeveloping the Kings Ave district.

peestandingup

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 07:39:00 AM »
It is quite ironic that San Marco, 5 Points, and Avondale have been successful as urban commercial districts but DT is suffering so much.  I think the resident-grassroots-driven nature of those areas vs. DT is a critical difference.  DVI, DDA, et al were all government driven and controlled.  RAP, SMPS, are not. 

Well, I also think the wealth of those communities has a lot to do with it as well.

I don't think its a coincidence that most of the urban development these days is going on in Avondale & San Marco. While Downtown, Springfield & even Five Points these days are having so much trouble with business growth & keeping their storefronts occupied.

vicupstate

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 08:19:36 AM »
It is quite ironic that San Marco, 5 Points, and Avondale have been successful as urban commercial districts but DT is suffering so much.  I think the resident-grassroots-driven nature of those areas vs. DT is a critical difference.  DVI, DDA, et al were all government driven and controlled.  RAP, SMPS, are not. 

Well, I also think the wealth of those communities has a lot to do with it as well.

I don't think its a coincidence that most of the urban development these days is going on in Avondale & San Marco. While Downtown, Springfield & even Five Points these days are having so much trouble with business growth & keeping their storefronts occupied.

You have a point. I find wealthy people have a lot less tolerance for excuses and government end-runs. They have the ear of the political bosses, so they get what they want. 

 
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peestandingup

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 10:05:37 AM »
It is quite ironic that San Marco, 5 Points, and Avondale have been successful as urban commercial districts but DT is suffering so much.  I think the resident-grassroots-driven nature of those areas vs. DT is a critical difference.  DVI, DDA, et al were all government driven and controlled.  RAP, SMPS, are not.  

Well, I also think the wealth of those communities has a lot to do with it as well.

I don't think its a coincidence that most of the urban development these days is going on in Avondale & San Marco. While Downtown, Springfield & even Five Points these days are having so much trouble with business growth & keeping their storefronts occupied.

You have a point. I find wealthy people have a lot less tolerance for excuses and government end-runs. They have the ear of the political bosses, so they get what they want.  

 

Its a simple matter of organization and clear vision.

Downtown is toxic for small business and development and there are no success stories that prove it to be a good bet for developers.  Think about it, Avondale has no Toney Sleimans or Jerry Morans who are getting publicly crushed by downtown policies.

Springfield was debating whether or not Car Washes caused crime and shutting down fish markets.  It was much too busy in these elysian pursuits to attract any of the hundred or so businesses that wanted to come there.

And five points is having a bit of an identity crisis, as the rents rose to high to support the kinds of businesses that create the bohemian vibe.  With Avondale and San Marco so close, the market ---which would support a growing bohemian district-----won't really support three avondale style districts within such a small radius.  In the meantime a poor district like King Street is getting all the real growth that might naturally have occurred in Springfield or Five Points.

Whats the difference?  There is a desire for a district and consensus in the community surrounding it.

+1 I think that's pretty spot on. It seems that Springfield, Downtown & Five Points are losing out to the other areas mentioned (San Marco, Avondale & King), at least in the small business vibrancy sense. I think the economic downturn & speculative markets also may have played a big role in those up & coming areas that weren't as established. Well, we know they did actually. That's not a big secret.

You're right about Five Points. Walking through there these days is kind of depressing. Half of the stores are empty & there isn't much foot traffic for the rest. That's a big turnaround from just a couple years ago. I saw even Caribbean Connection has closed its doors, and they've been there forever.

Hopefully the building owners are thinking about lowering their rents to attract new business so those people can sustain themselves better instead of bleeding out of their funds in a couple months & then closing shop. Give them time to grow & develop. A lot of these guys need bitch-slapped back into reality. It ain't like it was 4 years ago & it's not gonna be for a long time. Work with people or continue to have a high turnaround and/or empty space.

Doctor_K

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 10:24:43 AM »
Quote
A future rail station along Atlantic Blvd. at the FEC crossing is also indicated.

So this might actually become for-real?? Stellar!!
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Singejoufflue

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 10:40:22 AM »
Doug, are there any plans to help out the Southbank with this redevelopment? 

ubben

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 11:25:42 AM »
Nest is moving out of Five Points soon---heading to a space in San Marco with better parking.

Parking. Always stupid parking! Ugh.

Miss Fixit

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San Marco By Design
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 11:51:10 AM »
I think San Marco may be a better location for Nest but better parking? Not likely!

One reason for making the neighborhood more pedestrian and bicycle friendly is to reduce current parking problems without constructing unsightly parking lots and/or garages...

Bativac

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 01:28:15 PM »
Hopefully the building owners are thinking about lowering their rents to attract new business so those people can sustain themselves better instead of bleeding out of their funds in a couple months & then closing shop. Give them time to grow & develop. A lot of these guys need bitch-slapped back into reality. It ain't like it was 4 years ago & it's not gonna be for a long time. Work with people or continue to have a high turnaround and/or empty space.

I am almost certain the building owners are not at all considering lowering their rents. Property owners here seem to be perpetually deluded about the value of their properties and would rather the property remain vacant than lower the rent. Not to mention - forget about the property owner doing any kind of basic improvements to the property.

Bativac

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM »
I think San Marco may be a better location for Nest but better parking? Not likely!

One reason for making the neighborhood more pedestrian and bicycle friendly is to reduce current parking problems without constructing unsightly parking lots and/or garages...

San Marco definitely has better parking than 5 Points. I don't prefer one area over the other but it's easier to find a convenient spot in San Marco than it is on the Park Street strip in 5 Points. Also easier to pull in and back out of spaces in San Marco.

dougskiles

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 01:34:31 PM »
Doug, are there any plans to help out the Southbank with this redevelopment? 

While the official northern boundary of the plan is I-95, we are condidering how our plans interface with the Southbank riverwalk.  For example, I was just in a meeting talking to someone about creating a pedestrian/bike loop that would start at the end of the riverwalk (River City Brewing) continue around Baptist Hospital, Nemours and then through San Marco on Cedar Street, to the Kings Avenue garage, around the old JEA Southside Generating Station property to the start of the riverwalk at the School Board.  The loop would be about 3 miles - perfect for a 5k race.

billy

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Re: San Marco By Design
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 02:46:16 PM »
How about a very small floating dock at the little park along Lake Marco?