Restored Bridge of Lions Has Dozens of Malfunctions

[Dashing Dan]

Chris

The $46m was a preliminary estimate and the the $82 was an actual cost.  We don't know what the actual cost would have been for the option that you had favored, so be careful about claiming that $36m was "wasted."

Also, although you do deserve credit for being here on the scene, I really don't think that Jacksonville is as different from other places as you might think.  I've lived most of my working life in either Middle Tennessee or Northeast Florida, and there are a lot of eerie similarities between those two places.  For example, the consolidated government of Jacksonville started out as a carbon copy of the metropolitan government of Nashville and Davidson County.

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris

The $46m was a preliminary estimate and the the $82 was an actual cost.  We don't know what the actual cost would have been for the option that you had favored, so be careful about claiming that $36m was "wasted."

Also, although you do deserve credit for being here on the scene, I really don't think that Jacksonville is as different from other places as you might think.  I've lived most of my working life in either Middle Tennessee or Northeast Florida, and there are a lot of eerie similarities between those two places.  For example, the consolidated government of Jacksonville started out as a carbon copy of the metropolitan government of Nashville and Davidson County.

The loophole you're trying to squeeze through doesn't really exist, from the beginning even the DOT's own estimates of renovating the existing bridge were grossly cheaper their own estimates of the cost for replacement. The demolition and removal costs alone were astronomical. There are always cost overruns, but even the starting points were so far apart (about double the cost for one option vs. the other) that the more expensive option was obvious from the beginning. This was a total waste of money, even before cost overruns entered the picture.

And if you truly believe that things work the same around Jacksonville as everywhere else, then you have a bit of perplexion and consternation ahead of you. I guess I'd say come back in 10 years or so and look me up, and let's see if you feel the same way then. I'm sure Tennessee has its own set of backroom political operations I don't understand.

[Dashing Dan]

I'm not new here.  I lived in Jacksonville before I moved from to Nashville in 1975.

Compared to what it was in the Seventies, the political life in Jacksonville is fairly tame these days.

[ChriswUfGator]

So then it would be fair to say you weren't here when the events involving the DOT and bridge of lions were going on?

In any event, welcome back. I'm not trying to jump all over you or be a dick, just saying that when someone has a differing opinion based on facts other than those you originally considered, that doesn't make them wrong. A lot of times, I find I change my mind once I have all of the information, not just what was released for public consumption by an interested party. And when it comes to the DOT, their decisions are often political and influenced by business interests who either think they will get the contract, or think they will otherwise benefit commercially from the project. So we wind up with a lot of these situations, and there's another brewing with the proposed outer beltway right now, where a project that is wasteful or adverse to the interests of the taxpayers gets built over public objection anyway.

[BridgeTroll]

Timeline...

http://thebridgeoflions.org/b_home.html

1974 Traffic study for bridge undertaken.

1974 November - Criticism of a projected bridge replacement that would have included a 7-lane toll plaza on Anastasia Island.

1975 Plan for a parallel bridge ruled out because of cost.

1981 Department of Transportation proposes four lane span - meet opposition.

1981 "Save Our Bridge" bumper stickers first appear, distributed by Friends of St. Augustine Architecture.

1982 Department of Transportation halts plans for a new four lane bridge.

1982 Bridge nominated to National Register of Historic Places.

1986 Lion statues moved about 40 feet west of their original location, aggravating cracks in the marble.

1990 Load limit of 15 (rather than 40) tons put in place to protect bridge.

1993 Four lane bridge is ruled out as an option. Only two lane structures are now being considered.

1995 DOT leaning towards restoration.

1996 April 13 - St. Augustine Record reports "replacement now serious option/ Coast Guard wants wider clearance."

1996 Advisory Council on Historic Preservation suggests a variance to the new Coast Guard standards.

1996 St. Augustine City Commission votes to support restoration.

1997 Bridge included on list of "11 Most Endangered Historic Sites" by the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

1998 July 4th - The Save Our Bridge Committee is formed - circulating Fact Sheets and Petitions.

1998 August 8th - "Spanning the Generations", an art show at the St. Augustine Art Association showcasing the bridge opens to record attendance.

1998 August 29th, Bill Wharton and the Ingredients awareness raising concert at the St. Augustine Art Association.

1998 Bridge of Lions appears on the cover of the 1999 Engagement Calendar of the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

1999 February - FDOT issues its "Draft Environmental Impact Statement", launching a 90 day comment period.

2002 March 13 & 14 - FDOT holds three public meetings for the City of St. Augustine and surrounding areas impacted by the rehabilitation project.

2003 June 26 & 27 - FDOT holds two public meetings regarding the bridge design which is at 90% completion.

2003 July - The Final Environmental Impact Statement is released.

2003 October - A Record of Decision was signed by the Federal Highway Administration, finalizing the decision to rehabilitation the bridge.

2004 June 6 - Construction Contract awarded to Tidewater Skanska

2005 February - Marble lions are moved into storage. Work commences on temporary bridge

2006 May 17 - The Temporary Bridge is completed. Traffic is switched over at 7 p.m.

2006 May 26 - A ceremony is hosted by URS and the City of St. Augustine to officially close the Bridge of Lions. The rehabilitation begins!!

2006 June - Center draw span is removed.

2006 August - Steel approach spans start to be removed for rehabilitation.

2007 - All concrete piers are removed and re-poured. The towers are rehabilitated in place.

2008 Spring - The rehabilitated steel approach spans begin to return in the original Spring green color.

2009 July - New center draw span is put in place.

2010 January - Replicas of the original ornate metal railings and light fixtures begin installation.

2010 March 17 - The newly rehabilitated bridge is opened to the traffic with a ribbon cutting ceremony!

[ChriswUfGator]

Other than the mischaracterization of demolishing the old bridge and building a new structure that merely looks somewhat like the old one as a "rehabilitation" instead of what is really is, a "replacement," then yeah that pretty much sums up my memory of the events.

About the Coast Guard, they decided the old bridge was grandfathered in under the standards that existed at the time it was constructed, so that ultimately turned out to be a non-issue. The rest of is pretty much exactly how I remember it happening.

[Dashing Dan]

By the time I returned to Jacksonville in mid-2004, the old bridge was nearly ready to be taken down.

I agree that the new bridge should work better, but I'm not ready to agree that ~$36m was wasted.

The new bridge does include several pieces of the old bridge.  If they had started from scratch it might have been cheaper.

[ChriswUfGator]

And if they had simply renovated the old bridge, like everybody actually wanted, they would have saved even more.

[BridgeTroll]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_of_Lions

Even wikipedia refers to "rehabilitated", "reconstructed", and "renovation".

A "temporary" bridge was constructed adjacent to the original bridge and traffic was diverted to this structure while the original bridge was being rehabilitated and reconstructed to look like its predecessor.[5] After nearly 80 years of service, an official closing ceremony for the original Bridge of Lions was held on May 26, 2006. Isabella Heard, one of the young girls on the lead float in the opening of the bridge in 1927, was there, in a wheelchair, to tie the ribbon for its closing 79 years later.

Several components of the original bridge were either being rehabilitated or returned (as lost components) to the rehabilitated bridge. Primarily, the exterior or fascia steel girders are being rehabiliated along with the bascule tower piers. Once the rehabiliation of the original bridge is completed, at a total project cost of $80 million and 4 percent over budget,.[6] The temporary bridge will be removed and used as part of an artificial reef just offshore.[7] The two lions were in safe storage for the duration of the construction.[8]

Renovation work was completed on March 17, 2010 when it reopened for use.[9]. Following the removal of the temporary bridge (to an offshore reef), and landscaping, the restored Lion statures were returned after a 6 year absence, early in the morning of March 15, 2011[10], principally completing the bridge rennovation project.

[tufsu1]

Chris...Dashing Dan has noted that he's been back here since 2004 and I have been here since 2006 (in FL since 1994)...and you're "attacking" folks like us who aren't from here as not having valuable knowledge on many issues.

But arent you from Daytona originally...and since you just turned 30 and went to school at UF, how long have you lived here?

[stephendare]

Chris...Dashing Dan has noted that he's been back here since 2004 and I have been here since 2006 (in FL since 1994)...and you're "attacking" folks like us who aren't from here as not having valuable knowledge on many issues.

But arent you from Daytona originally...and since you just turned 30 and went to school at UF, how long have you lived here?

doesnt matter, tufsu,

if you were paying attention to something when it happened, then you are going to be more aware than someone who was absent at the time.

[ChriswUfGator]

I just noticed this;

Now $82mm later, the new one is 10X worse than the old one.

Nowhere in the article does it say it is 10X worse.  In fact... a subsequent article claims it is some kind of engineering marvel.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2010-11-20/bridge-lions-called-one-nations-top-10

The rehabilitation of St. Augustine's historic Bridge of Lions, led by facilities and infrastructure consulting firm RS&H, has been ranked fourth in the nation's Top 10 Bridges of 2010, according to Roads & Bridges magazine.

Umm...yeah...well it's a 'marvel' alright...in a certain sense...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/23955121/detail.html

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-03-08/fdot-working-bridge-lions-problem

http://jacksonville.com/community/st_johns/2010-03-19/story/st_augustines_bridge_of_lions_reopened_after_drawbridge_problems

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2010-04-28/bridge-lions-broken-again

[Jason]

IMO, because the steel girders and lift bascules were reused after being completely refurbished, its the same bridge with new approaches, concrete surface, and paint.  Just like rehabbing an old home, the main structure and architectural elements are kept and the rest is rebuilt with new material.

[Dashing Dan]

No matter where anybody was from 1975 to 2005 (give or take a year):

#1-FDOT lost the fight to replace the old bridge with a 4-lane high level bridge.
#2-The new bridge would have been cheaper if there hadn't been a fight.
#3-The new bridge should work better.

In a year or two, only #1 will be important.

[ChriswUfGator]

IMO, because the steel girders and lift bascules were reused after being completely refurbished, its the same bridge with new approaches, concrete surface, and paint.  Just like rehabbing an old home, the main structure and architectural elements are kept and the rest is rebuilt with new material.

Lol, that might make some kind of sense if the bridge hadn't been built mostly of concrete...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus