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Author Topic: First Coast Outer Beltway: Should it be Built?  (Read 5358 times)


  • Phd. Ferroequinology
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  • Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
Re: First Coast Outer Beltway: Should it be Built?
« Reply #105 on: December 11, 2012, 10:54:38 PM »
he roads offer smooth sailing for gridlock-weary commuters willing to pay the price. But far fewer people are using the turnpikes than officials predicted, which means the highways generate far less revenue than expected to retire their debts.

Where the hell is Wendell Cox and Randal O'Toole? The Cato Klan? The Heritage Heroes? Using the same analysis theses idiots use in their constant attacks on anything on rails it's pretty obvious ROADS DON'T MAKE MONEY so they should all be immediately defunded.

The review was prompted by former Orange County Assemblywoman Marilyn Brewer, who questions whether the debt-laden toll road agency is “viable as a going concern.”

“I think they are in trouble,” Brewer said. “I don’t believe there is malfeasance, but it’s no way to run a railroad or a toll road.”

This is what happens when you try to force people out of the trains and streetcars and onto a mode that at best is 21St Century technology.... 21St Century B.C. (First recorded use of chariots on roadways - in Egypt)

The roads, which rely on motorist tolls and fees from new developments in the area, have been battered by economic recessions, lower-than-expected population growth and competing public highways, such as Interstates 5 and 405, both of which have been widened and improved by Caltrans.

So the governments took money from transit, schools and other municipal services and funneled those taxes from new development into a money losing toll road! BRILLIANT!

Wall Street ratings agencies have reduced the San Joaquin Hills toll road's bonds to junk status and the notes for the Foothill-Eastern corridor to the lowest investment grade.

Pretty plain to see that these roads should be privatized immediately and removed from the public purse.

To meet expenses and debt payments, the corridor agency has refinanced the San Joaquin Hills bonds, raised tolls more than originally planned, slashed administrative costs and obtained repayment concessions from bondholders. Early next year, officials plan to refinance about $2.4 billion in notes issued to build the Foothill-Eastern tollway.

Blowing $2.4 billion on toll roads that nobody uses and nobody wants is right out of the Cato/Heritage playbook. Perhaps they should do the math? You know the math where they claim how much more expensive rail is then highways and Bus Rapid Transit? REALITY CHECK.

Foothill Eastern/San Joaquin Toll Roads - 51 miles:
Cost - $2.4 billion
Cost per mile - $47,058,823

Orlando Sunrail - 61.5 miles:
Cost through 2030 - $1.28 billion
Cost per mile - $20,813,008
That includes both capital and operations and maintenance costs through 2030.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 10:56:40 PM by Ocklawaha »
"The whole point of BRT is the lower cost, right? Hartford, CT just received FTA New Starts funding for a BRT system.

The capital cost is $572 million for all of 9.4 miles.

Oh, did I mention it is to run on an abandoned rail ROW?"


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Re: First Coast Outer Beltway: Should it be Built?
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2012, 01:28:03 AM »
I hate conveying apathy, but if this troll road must be completed, can we raise a rally cry  to insist the entire 47 mile route includes multiusepaths and lineal parks in each direction, benches, shade trees, restareas with picnic/shower/restroom  and foremost rail-perhaps a hybrid running at a speed faster than the Skyway,and Streetcar - but    touch slower than some commuterrail..

Build the greenWeway and  railway first!

nd oh yes, solar led photocell lightning throughout
Why is the world full of humans a lot less friendly than we ought to be?


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Re: First Coast Outer Beltway: Should it be Built?
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2012, 01:40:10 AM »
quoting Mr Bob Mann

July 18, 2012, 01:45:22 PM
Looking at the map is often a clue to the intent, in this case it's pretty obvious they don't plan to quit at Race Track Road. BTW Acme, the 'some other road' is indeed Race Track Road. Hooking into Race Track will make I-95 accessible from Julington Creek Plantation. Continuing on to St. Johns Parkway would certainly pull some of the SR-210 rush traffic off of the super-slab and reroute them onto the new I-795 (AKA-9-B).

If they're going to go ahead with this thing, in fact many of these 'things', then I'd wish to see I-795, cross the river onto Flemming Island, perhaps even pulling the stupid Branon-Chafee Turnpike crossing up and merging them together. The down side of their current plan is they will destroy the potential future of Clay County Barge Port at Green Cove Springs. Though Clay is asleep at the helm, just like Jacksonville, their port is one of the very few in the entire country that has marine, rail and airport all within the same grounds. They could convert these assets into a super-job-generator, with extension of one or two of the runways, at the old Naval Base, and relaying the railroad track to reach the docks. BINGO, instant regional intermodal terminal.  For a similar terminal with a slight disconnect to the barge facility which is some miles away, see Huntsville (AL) Intermodal Facility.

If ROW Acquisition is at this point in time unavoidable, and investors are skittish regarding retiring debt, start with rail, lineal parks, multiuse paths and solar l.e.d. throughout!

Provide superslab in 30 years if ever
Why is the world full of humans a lot less friendly than we ought to be?