Hogans Creek Park Master Plan

[zoo]

The scope of the master plan includes determining timing/cost for environmental remediation of soil and water, storm water management (flood control), preservation and restoration of historic assets where possible, and inclusion of beautification components.

[Ocklawaha]

Vision? How about that empty space over by Jefferson? How about this?



Don't sweat the small stuff - it's for models, look at the size of the autos. Bet this would bring out every retired,active, or wanna be pilot in Florida. Radio Controlled model flight, too cool... Ok LUNICAN, go find the video of an RC landing!  



OCKLAWAHA

[stephendare]

SheClown.

Zoo and FSU813 are advocates of the plan, so its safe to say that SPAR is for destroying the balustrades. After all, they are historic.

Chris Farley is the one making the most sense on the entire issue, and has presented cogent, logical points about the actual issues, and is being roundly ignored by the little coterie of omniscient ophidians---or worse: patiently explained to.

Obviously SHARP is for saving them.

But really, I think the whole plan needs scrapped.  The negatives so outweigh the positives.

Whats so funny is that the input of this group was sought and given prior to all the meetings and was online and available throughout.

Both the Shands and the FCCJ master plans were also available and online throughout and were disregarded completely.

The environmental information, obviously available and presented in person by Chris Farley, was disregarded.

Who was involved in this process?  proton experts and lawn maintenance people?

[thelakelander]

^Ock, send them to Cecil.  If we're talking about the same empty space, that's where to VA Clinic is supposed to go.  However, the plan should include how to intergrate a BRT station and associated retail/dining near the clinic and Shands.  That's something that I would suggest not leaving JTA in charge to decide.

[zoo]

Thank you, Chris, for continuing to be a reasonable voice.

That is not so.  I saw many of the written suggestions taken at the Karpeles incorporated, one of which was the possible removal of the Health Center which was built on park land.  A couple of weeks ago I was invited to walk the creek and parks with Jennifer Holbrooke and Kevin White and talk first hand about what I thought about the area, and water control.  I felt it was an enlightening walk for all of us.  These plans are not cast in concrete (pun intended) and are evolving, also there are many many problems, like the contamination, to overcome.  At least something is moving and attention is once again being drawn to an area, which even today in its shabby dress, is a thing of beauty - "which is a joy for ever".
They are looking at a long hard slog to get anything achieved, it was 3 1/2 years from idea to completion on the fountain, at least they are trying, listening and putting stuff out for all to see. The decision to spend the money was that of the parks and city representative, they thought it worthwile.

[sheclown]

Chris,

Is the plan to save the canal and the balustrades?

[stephendare]

Chris, I checked on the thread where our suggestions were solicited, and could not find your example of one in which the public health building should be demolished.  I did find all the rest of the ideas that were ignored however.

Here is the thread:  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5989.0.html

perhaps you can point out what I may have missed.

[strider]

Another note is that the efforts to save the balustrades actually began way back in 1994 or 1995 when Ed Austin was still mayor and Lisa and Mellissa wrote the grant and got the funds.  While it seems the original funds were used for other worthwhile things, it is odd that we are still talking about whether to save the balustrades or not. It should be a no brainer and we should be talking about how the rest of the park will work with them in place and restored.

[thelakelander]

I'm for the redevelopment of Hogans Creek as well. This is a process that should have happened years ago.  While there are elements in the conceptuals I don't agree with, I know that what was presented (it looks like a quick sketch on trace paper overlayed over an aerial) was probably thrown together in a hour or two after getting some input from the stakeholders.  Thus some things are completely out of scale and have not been properly addressed.  This is why its important at this stage to provide as much input to the consultants as possible.

In the end, a final plan should be much more detailed.  So my advice (I work in this industry) is to not get so stressed out.  Even when a final is produced, there's a slim chance everything on the plan will be built exactly as shown, anyway.

an example of a preliminary plan


an example of a more finalized plan


The Hogans Creek Plan still has a way to go, so now is the time to suggest what should be included or taken out.

[sheclown]

Working to save the balustrades and the canals has to be a top priority.  Anything else is just frosting on the cake.

[Ocklawaha]

^Ock, send them to Cecil.  If we're talking about the same empty space, that's where to VA Clinic is supposed to go.  However, the plan should include how to intergrate a BRT station and associated retail/dining near the clinic and Shands.  That's something that I would suggest not leaving JTA in charge to decide.

Just reminding them of how "in the box" the city is thinking, we could do so much more. BTW, yes BRT and STREETCAR and SKYWAY (at least to the foot of the park and an at grade connection station).  Also that natural creek is going to silt up big time with the grade from 8Th to roughly Orange, the canal would probably be easier to keep swept.

Oh yeah, forgot to tell ya, the twin threads are merged.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Speaking of mass transit and public spaces, here is a plan for a park in Santa Fe, NM.  It is proposed around the development of a commuter rail station in a former warehouse district.

SANTA FE RAILYARD PARK

Santa Fe, New Mexico
2008

Invited National Competition Winner|
2009 AIA New York/BSA Urban Design Honor Award



The Railyard Park, a great initiative of the Trust for Public Land, will activate the last remaining large-scale (13 acre) parcel of public land in downtown Santa Fe. The design, which includes a new public plaza, alameda and expansive park will knit together a loose group of cultural and commercial facilities to form a cohesive local cultural precinct. The Park will connect neighborhoods, previously separated by the light industrial site, and provide a safe, attractive pedestrian link to downtown Santa Fe.

Water plays a major role in the park design, both visually and functionally. The harvesting, storage and distribution of water allow the park to flourish in this drought stricken region, providing an oasis that will bring the local community together. Each element of this process, based on techniques used in New Mexico over the last four hundred years, has become a feature of the park design.

A historically inspired blue water tank provides a focal point for the new Plaza, providing a collection point for water gathered from surrounding roofs, and celebrating the use of contemporary sustainable design. An adjacent water sculpture, consisting of a drip fountain and shallow runnels represents a microcosm of the water systems of the Park. Blue water storage rail cars, drawing on the railyard nature of the site, store water for distribution via runnels located throughout the Park.

A line of telegraph-style light poles capped with solar powered blue railway lights run the length of the site, demarcating the main circulation path, and forming the spine of the Railyard Park. This linear connection is reinforced by the long solar-paneled shade structure of the Alameda that will serve as a shelter for varied activities including a local farmers market. A series of programmed railway box cars, will provide sites for events.

http://www.schwartzarch.com/projects/santa_fe_railyard.html

[zoo]

Two projects with big-picture similarities also worth looking at:

Indianapolis Canal Walk
http://www.indycanalwalk.org/gallery.aspx

Buffalo Bayou (Houston)
http://www.asla.org/2009awards/104.html

(** not posted as examples of design elements or themes -- it seems clear from conceptual sketches the project is not yet at the design stage)

[chris farley]

The grant that Melissa and Lisa wrote was to repair the balustrades in Confederate and to put them around the lake.   There was much more in that grant request.They were not involved in the club when those funds came through, and the contamination problem had arisen.  It took two geologists to convince the park that we could even turn over the soil to put in the rose arbor.  That far away from the creek and where the old gasification plant once stood. The park has many problems.  When the dog park issue arose we tried to put it on the lovely strip of land between the creek  and Orange but again "soil no touch"
The health building situation was in my written proposal at the residents meeting at the Karpeles,  I am saddened by the fact that in the early nineteeen hundreds we had 42 acres of park and it has been snitched and snitched until we are down to 25.  That parking lot opposite where the Dozier apartments were is an absolute travesty,  it is projects like this that have put the flood water at the heights it now achieves. Also in about 2002 the Army Corps said it would take 8 million to dredge (hate that word the creek would have to be vacuumed so as not to break the sills) the creek, but was held up by pollution - there used to be a insecticide or or such factory up stream - this i am not sure of, but it was supposed to be polluted.  There there was a round table meeting in which the lady came from the Corps and said she had good news and bad news, the creek was not that polluted as to prevent dredging but the bad news was that the funds had been frozen in the credit pinch.  If the Corps are back in the picture maybe that money will come back
Please do not quote the ISTEA grants unless you know specifically what was written in them, it only adds to the mire.  The thing that bothers me, and I have to dig it out,  Sandra Darling when our councillor got something like a $5 million allotment, through the council, for McCoys and Hogans Creek, I do not know where this money went.  I gave a copy of the article to Mack, I will ask if he still has it. Those are two very large sums of money which were meant for our creek and parks.

[stephendare]

There was a plastics company upstream that contributed to the benzene contamination of the parklands, Chris.

Also, you should be able to ask the reagans about the money.  Harry served on the council with Sandra and would know how and where to locate that information.

The gassification plant was not really the polluter that it has been painted to be in the community.  It was only operational for a couple of decades---and potentially only 12 years--- and has not been used as a gassification plant for nearly a century.

Please do not tell people what they can or cannot discuss on these threads.  If you can correct a misperception, that is just as valuable a service as announcing new information.

The parking lot is a travesty indeed, and the methods for infilling the land were even worse.

Also I think if you do some checking, you will find that the hogans creek park system was actually even larger than merely 40 acres.

Great information though, and thanks for clarifying that the written information you were referring was in fact your own written notes that you physically took to the meeting, and not the written suggestions on these forums solicited for consideration.