Top 10 Things to Make DOWN-town a BOOM-town

[finehoe]

RE:  Casinos

Ever been to Atlantic City?  The casinos have no real connection to the city, they are just grafted on along the boardwalk and the rest of the place is little better than a ghetto.  It would take some careful planning (something Jacksonville isn't particularly good at) to ensure the same thing didn't happen downtown.

[stjr]

There was a Harrah's as I recall in New Orleans.  I didn't even know it was there until we walked by it.  Not much of a gambler, but there was so much to see and do in New Orleans that was unique to the city we decided not to waste time in "just another casino".  Almost every state now has live gambling in some form it seems.  It's really not all that special anymore.  I guess if you're an addict but who wants to attract that problem. 

I am trying to think of any major American City other than Las Vegas that depends on casinos to make their downtowns boom and none come to mind.  Anyone have a case study to present?

[Ocklawaha]

Biloxi, Morango Nation - Banning, CA., Vicksburg, Shreveport, Reno, Lake Tahoe, + just about every indian nation in Oklahoma.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Biloxi, Morango Nation - Banning, CA., Vicksburg, Shreveport, Reno, Lake Tahoe, + just about every indian nation in Oklahoma.

Ock, those are major cities?  Boy, you put Jax in great company 

You could open a Waffle House in those towns and create a boom.  Maybe that's what we need to ignite Downtown.

[stjr]

Here is an idea, born of late night postings:  How about creating a structure or monument so unique it becomes the City's 'world famous" signature.  So awesome, that anyone visiting can't say they came to Jax without paying a visit to the site and taking a picture by it.  A must see for anyone coming near or to Downtown Jax.  Something that just a picture of it says Jacksonville, Florida.

Like the St. Louis Arch, the Seattle Space Needle, the St. Pete Pier, Disney's Cinderella Castle or Epcot Globe, Paris's the Eiffel Tower, New York's Statue of Liberty, London's Big Ben, the Washington Monument, San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge,  Philadelphia's Independence Hall/Liberty Bell, Stone Mountain, Mount Rushmore, Hollywood's sign, etc.

We could  have an international design competition for a structure/monument of such size that it could be visible throughout the Downtown area and from I-95/I-10.  With an observation deck atop it for special views.  Maybe a restaurant.  Like the examples, it must have some interaction with its visitors.

Here's some throw away concepts just to get the conversation going:  A "Sun Spire", "Sun Spiral", or "Fire Spire" (paying homage both to the fire of our native sun and the Jax Fire).  It could be the world's largest prism/mirror/solar collector or at least a variation on the theme.  At night it could create its own light through fire.  How about a sculpted high rise triangular structure with water features and a blue hue that is called "Water Wing", a representation of our water everywhere, the presence of flight in Jax (aviation history, the Navy fliers, flying wildlife, etc.), the triangular shape of Ft. Caroline by the water.  Or, a giant modernistically designed hour glass structure that actually flips over (maybe with people inside for the ride!), filled with fine Florida sand, representing our sandy shores.  Or a computerized perpetual motion sculpture that mesmerizes its viewers with never-to-repeat configurations on a grand scale, to represent a City always at work and play, but never fully at rest.  Or a special architecturally significant bridge (perhaps designed to carry street cars, bicyclists, and pedestrians) that represents the importance of bridges to Jax, a bridge from the past to the future, a bridge from the North Bank to the South Bank.

No doubt, there would be no end to possible ideas for a commission of citizens to chose from.  Upon selection, depending on the type of structure, funds from the private and/or public sectors would be sought to build it.  But once built, Jax would have a rallying point for its citizens to share in common - a part of all our identities.  When we tell others we are from Jacksonville, such an image will immediately come to the forefront of their minds.[/b]

[Keith-N-Jax]

The Main street Bridge got alot of attention during the SB. Of course with the new lights and video screen it was in a class by itself. People from out of town seem to not be able to keep their eyes off it. The lights remain, but no video board so the effect is not the same. Ideas like a skyway cafe, larger statue of Andrew Jackson have been floated around(stjr I know you hate the skyway), but imagine something like the space needle with elevator cars that resemble the skyway cars.

[Cricket]

I am trying to think of any major American City other than Las Vegas that depends on casinos to make their downtowns boom and none come to mind.  Anyone have a case study to present?

Here ya go:


http://www.casinogamblingweb.com/gambling-news/casino-gambling/west_virginia_tourism_thriving_thanks_to_casino_gambling_54525.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/crossingamerica/5731368/Down-the-Mississippi-Iowa-casinos-thriving-as-recession-boosts-staycations.html
http://www.missouricasinos.org/analysis.cfm
http://casinoassociationofnewjersey.org/News/Casino_Connection_1007.html

[stjr]

Cricket, thanks for posting your links.

I looked at each.  Two of the links are industry sites so you know they are going to be rosy.  More importantly, they mostly focused on the business INSIDE the casinos and the TAX REVENUE they pay to government.  Also, I didn't see any reference to major cities.  What I was looking for were casinos that could be credited with revitalizing a major urban area.

And, the quote below in the second article from a casino manger was most telling about how these casinos could actually further DEPRESS surrounding businesses:

People always want to have a good time, blow off steam, relax and get away after work and that’s what we offer. We don’t compete necessarily with other gaming destinations but with places where people go out to dine or to the movies.

[stjr]

I think this October 30th Wall Street Journal article about Detroit casinos may provide a more relevant take on the ups and downs of having urban casinos.

Once again, it seems the main benefits are TAX REVENUE and INSIDE the casino.  I don't see any references to a revitalization of, or major spin off benefits to, downtown Detroit. In fact, the hotels don't seem to be benefiting at all.  If Detroit was doing better overall, one has to wonder if the casinos would even be a significant factor worth discussing.

....Opponents say the casinos make hard times harder for families strapped for cash. But proponents note that the three casinos, which employ about 8,200 people, are one of the few sources of new jobs and have helped to increase tourism, convention business and city revenue.

Charles Beckham, chief administrative officer for Detroit, acknowledges that patrons are often the ones who can least afford to lose money."I'm amazed that with the unemployment rate we still have people going to casinos," he said.

But casino revenue provides critical financial support to Detroit. Last fiscal year, it provided the city $189 million, the second largest source of revenue after support from the state. The facilities have also agreed to do their best to hire more than half their workers from among Detroit residents. "We're better off with them than without them," Mr. Beckman said.

Late Tuesday afternoon, 20 card tables at Detroit's Motor City Casino Hotel were packed with poker and Texas hold ' em players. At least 50 more gamblers crowded around a roulette table. Richard Knoll, a retired truck driver, said he was at Motor City because of the casino's giveaway of 20 cars in 20 days. He used to be a regular in Las Vegas and Atlantic City, he said, but now he sticks to Detroit and occasionally visits Atlantic City.

Destination resorts like Las Vegas and Atlantic City have been particularly hard hit because gamers, tourists and conventioneers aren't traveling as much. The dire conditions have led to some high-profile bankruptcies. Last week, MGM Mirage announced it was taking a $955 million write-down on its $8.5 billion City Center project scheduled to open by year-end.

Detroit's casinos are faring better partly because they don't rely as heavily on out-of-town visitors. MGM's Lorenzo Creighton said most patrons come from within 50 miles of the casino. To retain market share, the casino has created a new ad campaign targeting the urban market, showing, for example, a husband and wife at a grocery store deciding to go to the MGM Grand.

The down side of this local focus is that it's hard for Detroit's casinos to fill the hotel rooms they were required to develop as part of their licenses. MGM Grand, for example, has just a 40% occupancy rate. But most of the casinos' revenue comes from gaming so the impact from the low occupancy is limited.

Despite their relatively good performance, Detroit casinos haven't avoided financial problems. Greektown was forced to seek bankruptcy protection in the spring of 2008, partly because of delays in constructing its permanent facility. But its profit was up 38% in September over the same period in 2008 and, according to Mr. Fine, it's on track to come out by year-end.

Detroit's casinos may face more competition soon. In November, Ohio voters will vote on whether to allow casinos in the Buckeye State. Similar measures have been defeated four times in the past 19 years. But supporters hope the state's rising unemployment rate will sway voters.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704224004574487800279559762.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[stjr]

The Main street Bridge got alot of attention during the SB. Of course with the new lights and video screen it was in a class by itself. People from out of town seem to not be able to keep their eyes off it. The lights remain, but no video board so the effect is not the same.

What I don't understand is why, if we enhance the Main Street bridge for a million dollars as we did, we don't maintain it.  It seems our community fails to appreciate that construction costs are just the tip of the iceburg.  Operational costs have to be considered as well. (See the $ky-high-way.  We paid little locally to build it but, boy, are we paying through the nose to keep it "running".)

If the bridge (along with the other bridge lightings at a million each) was meant to attract people downtown, then paying to maintain it should be a good return on investment.  If we don't do the maintenance, then we are admitting that the initial project was a failure, IMHO.  Which is it going to be?

[buckethead]

With regard to casinos, It seems to me that the fight which would undoubtedly ensue, would bring more infighting, litigation and outright division in our community, it hardly seems worth a questionable finacial benefit.

[Ocklawaha]

Here's some throw away concepts just to get the conversation going:  A "Sun Spire", "Sun Spiral", or "Fire Spire" (paying homage both to the fire of our native sun and the Jax Fire).  It could be the world's largest prism/mirror/solar collector or at least a variation on the theme.  At night it could create its own light through fire.  How about a sculpted high rise triangular structure with water features and a blue hue that is called "Water Wing", a representation of our water everywhere, the presence of flight in Jax (aviation history, the Navy fliers, flying wildlife, etc.), the triangular shape of Ft. Caroline by the water.  Or, a giant modernistically designed hour glass structure that actually flips over (maybe with people inside for the ride!), filled with fine Florida sand, representing our sandy shores.  Or a computerized perpetual motion sculpture that mesmerizes its viewers with never-to-repeat configurations on a grand scale, to represent a City always at work and play, but never fully at rest.  Or a special architecturally significant bridge (perhaps designed to carry street cars, bicyclists, and pedestrians) that represents the importance of bridges to Jax, a bridge from the past to the future, a bridge from the North Bank to the South Bank.

How about the worlds first completed urban monorail system, with 21st century design elements, interfaced with streetcars from the 1920's era? Make sure both systems spend at least an overpass, or a few blocks along I-95 and/or I-10, which would WOW every Yankee on the super slab.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

How about the worlds first completed urban monorail system, with 21st century design elements, interfaced with streetcars from the 1920's era? Make sure both systems spend at least an overpass, or a few blocks along I-95 and/or I-10, which would WOW every Yankee on the super slab.

Ock, I was looking for a "more positive" symbol than the "monster" $ky-high-way in disguise (Hey, Halloween was last week!) 

However, since we are in the "imagineering" stage of the game, all suggestions are welcome.  How about another suggestion, this time without rails under it. (Although, I was just thinking, if we had version of the old Mandarin or zoo kids' train running through a downtown park, that would be pretty neat.)

[Cricket]

Cricket, thanks for posting your links.

I looked at each.  Two of the links are industry sites so you know they are going to be rosy.  More importantly, they mostly focused on the business INSIDE the casinos and the TAX REVENUE they pay to government.  Also, I didn't see any reference to major cities.  What I was looking for were casinos that could be credited with revitalizing a major urban area.

stjr, let's be fair. No one is suggesting that an urban casino would by itself transform our downtown into a boomtown anymore than an upgraded Hogan's Creek would singlehandedly. It is just one contribution to the list of all the other ideas for revitalising the city. I refer you to your own quote:

There is unlikely going to be a single event that creates a "boom" Downtown.

I suggest, however, that the difference between the casino idea and all the others is that (1) it is undeniably a tax revenue generator for any city, and (2) it would help to make downtown a regional/destination town instead of the drive-thru town that it is today.

[Cricket]

I think this October 30th Wall Street Journal article about Detroit casinos may provide a more relevant take on the ups and downs of having urban casinos.

I also read that article.

It is interesting that you would point conveniently to Detroit which, in economic terms, is one of the most dire landscapes in all of America today, for reasons that we are all familiar with. The reality though is that most  urban casinos (not to be confused with gambling complexes like Vegas) while not immune to today's economic downturn, is nevertheless weathering the downturn much better than many other businesses. But downtown Detroit today might need a whole lot more of a transfusion than casinos can provide.