Ruins of Jacksonville: The Ambassador Hotel

[Ocklawaha]

Come on, Stephen!  Saying that someone is "too dense to understand" is coming close to the name calling that none of us like here.  Them's not fighting words, pardner, but maybe squabbling words.

I don't know about that Dog Walker, after all, isn't all talk of Jacksonville, another lesson in DENSITY?

Hee Hee!

OCKLAWAHA

[stephendare]

I agree with you Dogwalker.  The density remark was simply repeating back gentry's first statement.  (See bottom)  Its been a while since Ive heard the mid 40s as 'too young' to understand something, so IM assuming I must be too dense.

um.  did you bother reading the post?

Im still waiting for your blistering report from a non "Forbes Magazine" source that shows that Downtown is the worst crime district since the twin cities (Sodom and Gomorrah) went up in flames.

And it would be nice if you would give a little insight on the accuracy of your own assessment.  Aside from staying in a fleabag hotel in the 90s, what actual examination of the buildings structure and systems are you privy to?

Also, since you alluded to your working knowledge of the perils of the 11east building, which of the ownership groups were you speaking about?  After all, if you are going to prominently mention the building whose renovation proves the clown makeup you are wearing is legitimate, it would be nice to know a:  who these mysterious owners were, and b: what chilling insights did they give you about the unworkablility of the building before the building was then, miraculously, renovated?

Also what are you talking about with this 'retrofit' business?

Ive only heard that term used in the building trade in connection with making a building able to survive an earthquake.

Are you aware that Jacksonville has very few of these?  We are most likely to have a Hurricane.  which the building has already survived twice.

Your actual point seems to be:

It is cheaper to redevelop buildings that have less wrong with them.

No one would refute this point.  Its a good point.  Its a sane point.

Perhaps you could hang out with that point for a hot minute and stay away from the big hot plate of Crazy?

All you want to do is argue. You obviously lack any capacity for construction terminology. Which proves to me you are spewing nonsense. Retrofit is the process of furnishing with new or modified parts or equipment not available or considered necessary at the time of manufacture and/or to install (new or modified parts or equipment) in something previously manufactured or constructed and to adapt to a new purpose or need. Sound familiar?

Since my very first post on this topic it was not an emotional discussion, as is the nature of business. I have been stating what I know as an insider and my experience with this business. I am an Architectural Engineer for the city of Jacksonville, FL and previously Manila, Philippines who simply shared his opinion on the state of the Ambassador Hotel.

I won't address your other points because you're simply too dense or too young to learn. Hopefully for your sake it's the latter.

Peace out.

[Dog Walker]

Missed the first use of the pejorative by someone else, Stephen.  Apologies.

GENTRY, it's OK to say that someone is wrong or misinformed.  To say that they are dense is getting borderline insulting and doesn't advance the argument.  Also, Stephen will always needle back so it's a zero sum game.

Back on thread:

In general, on what basis can a building be said to be beyond rehabilitation?  My first though would be that it is when it would cost more to rehabilitate the building and "retrofit" it for a new purpose than it would be to tear it down and build a new building of equal quality.  Second would be when the location is much more valuable than a rehabilitated building would be worth.  An  old house on a half acre in Manhattan would be such a thing as an extreme example.

What other criteria are used by an architect/planner for the city to evaluate a building?  I am sure that significant architectural detail and general attractiveness comes into play somewhere.  The old Barnett Bank building is certainly more appealing to the eye than the Federal Reserve Building for example.  Is there some sort of point system that has been developed?

[Ocklawaha]

I know what it was referring to, dork.    For the record I dont. strawberry blondes never go grey.  its a blessing of our fine scottish genome.

Guess that depends on what side of Scotland ones family is from Stephen. Being related both to Wallace and my Grandmother BRUCE, would suggest I might be a Scot too. Having to use my mothers maiden name as my last name in Colombia, Robert Scott, I guess would also suggest a bit of highlander blood. Trouble is, even with my fat round Scottish face, I'm as GREY as it gets!

OCKLAWAHA
Got to admit, ST. ANDREWS CROSS seems ingrained, either in Blue sans stars or RED with stars.

[Paradox]

I doubt the city of jax has even had architects or engineers inside this hotel considering it is privately owned and all the doors are padlocked and or welded shut.

I still think the structure is sound on this hotel from walking every floor and every room inside it multiple times. The cost of demolition and then building an equivalent structure would far outweigh the cost of rehabbing this one and would not look near as nice. Any contractor, architect, and engineer team worth their salt would have foreseen the majority of work needed which is a complete interior stripping and added that into the costs. Also the unforeseen additions usually come from partial restorations. There is not much that can be unforeseen when you expect to redo the entire interior. As long as the foundations or supports or walls are not damaged only minor costs like a rain delay or the price of a product going up or something like that would drive costs up and that would be minor.

Also sportmotor stop being such a furry

I would say from talking to stephendare irl long ago aging is like a fine wine for him so far

[urbaknight]

I can imagine that staircase being restored to its former glory. I hope they can get this done.

  This staircase design is typical in major cities, such as Philadelphia and New York. They're a bitch when you're bringing furniture up. But, in this particular place, I saw an elevator shaft. So, hopefully, people can move their stuff in with a minim of problems.

[braeburn]

I fail to see where this "area" has any crime. I've lived one block away from the Ambassador hotel since May of 2007, and the ONLY incident I ever heard of or encountered was a guy taking a hooker inside of the building, when it was easy to get inside until they put the plexiglass walls over the windows that are level with the ground/sidewalk. The police arrived within 2 minutes, immediately apprehended them and hauled them away. The residents in this section of the city don't tolerate this type of behavior.

The Fire & Safety building is practically right across the street. The KBJ Architect Firms' mansion is right there and very well secured. The Metropolitan Lofts (easily renting for $1200-2000/mo, and being completely full) are a block down the street, in full view of the Ambassador. City Place (where I live) is one block's distance from this place, and FBC is RIGHT around the corner. Additionally, the ugly "Ultima"esque AT&T tower is right there, with security guards. We have security. FBC has security. The Metropolitan has a 24 hr concierge (read:guard). There are high end cars parked in all of the surrounding parking lots all through the night - no problems. This section is as lit as a Christmas tree. The only exception would be the old JEA building, but you'd sooner get killed by an old window or piece of debris falling on you than any kind of "crime" around here.

You'd have to be one dumb criminal to do any hanky-panky in this section of town. And with the new courthouse being right around the next corner, this renovation project also happens to make perfect sense. A HUGE chunk of the W/NW quadrant has been fenced off due to the construction, so there really is no room for crime here. I walk through here 3-4 nights a week, late at night, and it's very quiet.