Ruins of Jacksonville: Annie Lytle Public School

[jason_contentdg]

I've always thought the auditorium area would make a great live music venue.



I know it's probably not feasible financially, but out of all the possible uses for Annie Lytle, a club/music venue makes sense to me since most people wouldn’t want to live under a highway overpass. Or at the very least a cultural venue of some sort, museum etc.

I still think that this could easily translate into the P.S.1 of the south:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.S.1_Contemporary_Art_Center

[jbroadglide]

BTW, it was quite the sight to see the two of us hoisting up and crawling through broken windows to enter (Doug, if your reading, thanks for not shooting us!)

Not to be the wet blanket here but since this building is condemned as being way to dangerous for humans to be in, basically you guys were trespassing. Did you have the current owners permission to go inside? And if so, they had no right to allow you in.
Sorry Stephen. Even though the pictures are tremendous, that was really a foolish thing to do.
Just my two cents. Flame away.

[stephendare]

Thanks JBroadglide.  And it was wet blankety.

The current owner is Doug Milne, a friend of 22 years.

Luckily we neither burned the building down nor did we get hurt.  There arent any trespassing charges involved, but thanks for the helpful suggestion anyhow

I wish we could take credit for the pictures featured, they werent from our foray.  I think we probably got better photos that capture the sad beauty of the place instead of the excellent scary ones that are featured.

[jbroadglide]

Steve, I understand Doug is a friend of yours. But if a Code Officer or a Police Officer had seen you its very likely you would have been faced with trespassing. Right now the cost to make repairs to bring that building up to code is well over 50% of the actual value of the building. I'm not talking historic value, because obviously there is that. I'm talking about the actual dollar value. And for that reason I just don't see it ever being upgraded to anything useful. I wish it could be because right now its a real eyesore on the city considering now that anyone who takes the high ramp from I-95 south onto
I-10 west is well over the rooftop and can really see how bad a condition its in. Don't get me wrong. I am in very much in favor of saving any historic structure if it can be done economically. Just don't see how thats possible with this building.

[stephendare]

Well thats a shame, JB!  You should spend some time on a historic restoration sometime.

The Klutho Apartments were in the same condition (actually worse) when Fresh Ministries rebuilt them.  Starting with something whose expense would be staggering in todays market (like all those hundreds of thousands of aged bricks that form the already standing walls) takes a huge chunk out of the expense of building.

Historic renovation on that scale isnt really more expensive (to use the same materials as made the building its usually less so) its just more difficult, because you have the logistics of working around already constructed portions.

The building could not only be saved, it could become a show place for less money than it would take to build a duplicate structure.

[jbroadglide]

Stephen you are correct. I am not an expert on historic renovation. I'm just relating facts as they are right now. If the current owners want to renovate that property and make it into a showplace I'm quite sure the city would stand back and let them have it. But this property has been in an Unsafe and Condemned state since at least 2001..Probably well before. But if the council person in that area or the Mayors Office starts pushing for Municipal Code Compliance to "do something about that eyesore", MCC would have no choice.
Like I said I personally am in favor of saving any historic structure if its feasible. My personal opinion, and thats all it is, my opinion, is that this structure is beyond saving..my opinion and a dollar will get me a coffee and McDonalds.

[jason_contentdg]

It does not look beyond saving at all to me, really the roofs could even be built by incorporating a secondary structure system, and not even bear on the existing walls or structure, although the walls look to be in pretty good shape in the pictures.

Would it be cheaper to build a new building on the site and demolish this one? Perhaps.  But not to the quality of this one.

[stephendare]

It does not look beyond saving at all to me, really the roofs could even be built by incorporating a secondary structure system, and not even bear on the existing walls or structure, although the walls look to be in pretty good shape in the pictures.

Would it be cheaper to build a new building on the site and demolish this one? Perhaps.  But not to the quality of this one.

Exactly Jason.  Not to the quality of this one.

It would probably be even cheaper to tear down the structure and build mud huts or a thrilling adobe structure out of clay that we could import from Big Talbot Island.

But when people talk about cheaper to tear down and 'build a new building' they never mean "of the same quality" They mean one of these cheap ass, staple construction, easily destroyed jobs.

[Bewler]

Exactly... It would be cheaper if we all drank tap water and ate boiled rice for the rest of our lives.
I mean why "waste" hard earned money unnecessarily on more expensive food and drinks that taste delicious?

Same principle applies here.

basically you guys were trespassing.

And pot is illegal.

[David]

and so is jaywalking.

[stug]

Steven and Ock ... if you ever go in again, bring me!
I had an opportunity to go in once several years ago before it was fenced off (yes, illegally ... don't rat me out, jbroadglide!) and totally chickened out. I'm a sucker for a good supernatural scare, but I was slightly more terrified of the corporeal denizens within. I could live without a rusty shank to the gut.

[Dog Walker]

The City has not and will not enforce any code violations against Doug Milne.  He has not and will not spend any money or effort to secure the school or its grounds.  The roof over the auditorium collapsed in 2002 because he would not repair a leak in the roof that caused the support trusses to rot.

All of the work to clean up the grounds and secure the building in the past two years has been done by volunteers led by Timkin, who sometimes writes on this forum.  The amount of work he has done almost by himself is astonishing.  Because of back and shoulder injuries he can no longer do this heavy work.

The building is structurally quite sound.  The walls are solid masonry that is over two feet thick in places.  The floors are poured concrete.  The interior walls are hollow clay tile.  The stairs are concrete.  The roof is mostly metal.  All of the wooden elements of the building, windows & doors, are deteriorated.  The plaster covering on the walls is damaged and covered with graffiti.  

The building is shaped like the letter E laid on its side.  The auditorium is the middle stroke of the E.  The wings on either side have a double row of rooms on the bottom floor and a single row of rooms on the second floor so there are two roof top terraces on the wings.  The building was built before air conditioning so the light that comes into the building is fabulous.  From the floor of the auditorium to the roof is about twenty-five feet high.  It is a great space and the acoustics could be made wonderful because of the high ceiling.

The building is owned by a non-profit LLC which only owns the building and has no other assets.  The property is owned by a for-profit LLC.  Both are controlled by Mr. Milne.

[lindab]

Stephen, you are very right about the quality of the historic construction. Despite the obvious scary paint job on the interior and the vandalism there is so much integrity in the structure that renovation is still a good option. Try Photo-shopping those pictures to remove the graffiti and look at the features that remain. Historic restoration is never cheap because it is so hard to replicate the detail work of past times. However, once it is done the value to the structure and to the community is greater than the cost of the work.

Here are the pluses of Annie Lytle which get overlooked almost everytime:
1.With the exception of the auditorium roof, the structure is concrete with walls that are several feet thick. Sound transmission through roof and walls is minimal.

2.Although the windows are shot to hell, if they were replaced with double paned windows, you would have no problems with noise. We are the closest neighbors to PS #4, live at ground level in a historic mixed use building with the expressway merge ramp about 200 yrds. away and have solved our noise problem the same way.

3.The entire upstairs facing on the back courtyard is windows all along the corridor. It faces north and lets in a beautiful light. It creates a gallery across the back hallway.

4.The school property is large. It goes back to the end of the block.

5.Staircases are pretty destroyed but still retain lovely arches. Your photos capture some of that.

6.The auditorium and upper gallery are well designed for performances. They have the charm of a small intimate stage and seating.

7.My favorite feature is the front facing connection to Riverside Park. You can walk down those grand steps, under the expressway and enter Riverside Park. It is the best asset of the building.

It is hard to be nonchalant about the amount of willful neglect this property has received from the owner. Do you know what kinds of risks kids are taking to get into the building to add to the graffiti or to photograph it?  Should someone get injured, there will be a clamor to destroy it.

Most everyone has a good idea about what could be done for the building at some future time. The number one thing is to do right now is to safeguard the structure from further deterioration by weather or visitors.

[Bewler]

Most everyone has a good idea about what could be done for the building at some future time.

BREW
ER
REE!!!

BREW
ER
REE!!!

Are you there Bold City? If your current location ever gets too small or you find yourselves in the position to expand, you know where to look.

[untarded]

Are the owners selling and if so how much are they asking?  Or are they waiting for the inevitable wrecking ball?